Engagement by Class (What are the Minnows doing?)
Somewhat of a follow-up to yesterdays post and in particular, one of the comments that was made by an engaged orca.
source
There are 3x more minnows than dolphins, but they don't appear to be commenting much on my posts at least - and I vote on comments.... At least for me, the most active groups for comments considering the distribution, are the dolphins and orcas. Dolphins seem to be the most active engagers, and minnows are very unimpressive considering their numbers. @tarazkp
So the plan is to have a look engagement by class - are the dolphins and orcas more engaged than the minnows?
The following accounts have been excluded from the data as they look like automated commentators.
'likwid','steemmonsters','hivebuzz','actifit','tipu','vimm','w7ngc','wiv01','esteemapp','sor31','asd09','x6oc5','zxc43','vmn31','fgh87','w95hj','xcv47','yakovinvest','jkl65','hivewatchers','pinmapple','hivewatcher','bdcommunity','c-squared','pixresteemer','bdvoter.cur','beerlover','steemcleaners','qurator','cheetah','upvotebank','sketchbook.bot','bible.reader2','bible.reader4','discovery-it','bible.reader1','suy38','et42k','bible.reader3','vp4g5','no58s','x45ki','w1c6c','mhg41',
'nn13b','q13lp','q1w2c','b23df','j5gs7','npo31','aaron731','bible.readers2','bible.reader49','anonramblingscom'
For ease, although not 100% accurate:
| Class | HP range |
|---|---|
| Redfish or Smaller | < 500 HP |
| Minnow | 500-4999 HP |
| Dolphin | 5000-49999 HP |
| Orca | 50000-499999 HP |
| Whale | 500,000+ HP |
This first table shows the total number of accounts in each range 'No. of Accounts', the number of those that have commented at least once on Hive 'Comm. ('Active')', and what that is as a % of the total accounts in each class '% Comm.'
| Class | No. of Accounts | Comm. ('Active') | % Comm. |
|---|---|---|---|
| Redfish/smaller | 1376544 | 11049 | 1% |
| Minnow | 9206 | 2732 | 30% |
| Dolphin | 1936 | 961 | 50% |
| Orca | 320 | 154 | 48% |
| Whale | 34 | 12 | 35% |
This is sort of as expected. The lower accounts are mostly inactive, and those building a stake through posting/commenting are the most active, although the % of active Minnows looks quite low.
This second table shows the total comments made by each class on Hive since the 20th March. Referencing the first table, the average number of comments per active (at least one comment) class member 'Comm. per 'active'', the total body length of the comments by class 'Body Len', and referencing the first table again, the average length of comment output by each active class 'len per active'.
| Class | Total Comm. | Comm. per 'active' | Body Len | Len per active |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Redfish/smaller | 142170 | 13 | 27161470 | 2458 |
| Minnow | 245639 | 90 | 44487781 | 16284 |
| Dolphin | 164066 | 171 | 29817374 | 31027 |
| Orca | 31821 | 207 | 6149060 | 39929 |
| Whale | 1840 | 153 | 336502 | 28042 |
And it's this table that I am a bit confused about. An average of 90 comments per 'active' Minnow looks very low, doesn't it? And the Red fish/smaller, what's going on there?
Is it not the case anymore that to be seen as an account without stake, there should be plenty of commentary on the posts of others, to lure them to your content?
I'm a bit bummed by this data, and looking for someone to read something positive from it. I expected to see the smaller accounts putting in the most effort, but that doesn't seem to be the case, why?
In case you were wondering, some of the most engaged accounts in each class:
Whale
| Account | Comments | Total Length |
|---|---|---|
| themarkymark | 587 | 87229 |
| azircon | 358 | 92153 |
| xxxxxxxxxx | 352 | 28362 |
| blocktrades | 246 | 66476 |
| pharesim | 100 | 25777 |
| theycallmedan | 96 | 12304 |
| gtg | 86 | 19257 |
Orca
| Account | Comments | Total Length |
|---|---|---|
| galenkp | 3941 | 1023604 |
| tarazkp | 2451 | 449792 |
| abh12345 | 2055 | 361107 |
| nonameslefttouse | 1537 | 435593 |
| meesterboom | 1522 | 152554 |
| slobberchops | 1015 | 163454 |
| jongolson | 965 | 125389 |
| jrcornel | 829 | 105770 |
| daveks | 720 | 40609 |
| edicted | 703 | 189754 |
Dolphin
| Account | Comments | Total Length |
|---|---|---|
| tattoodjay | 3099 | 581567 |
| melinda010100 | 2811 | 318728 |
| johannpiber | 2555 | 865905 |
| chekohler | 2259 | 413518 |
| trincowski | 1976 | 228956 |
| dsc-r2cornell | 1782 | 600119 |
| artemislives | 1760 | 488610 |
| silvertop | 1695 | 275530 |
| papilloncharity | 1693 | 377626 |
| brittandjosie | 1671 | 389030 |
| dswigle | 1659 | 663097 |
Minnow
| Account | Comments | Total Length |
|---|---|---|
| russellstockley | 2503 | 773070 |
| kaminchan | 2470 | 300595 |
| flaxz | 2440 | 330869 |
| investinthefutur | 2314 | 531710 |
| wakeupkitty | 1858 | 234246 |
| sacra97 | 1687 | 282260 |
| ryivhnn | 1628 | 675907 |
| joeyarnoldvn | 1576 | 250612 |
| redheadpei | 1370 | 233855 |
| silversaver888 | 1329 | 347440 |
| belemo | 1309 | 171468 |
Red fish / smaller
| Account | Comments | Total Length |
|---|---|---|
| rockor | 1794 | 144282 |
| another.world | 1282 | 917482 |
| ethaniel | 1223 | 870291 |
| johnolusegun | 1217 | 117829 |
| samson37 | 1006 | 711821 |
| abel37 | 890 | 622851 |
| ocaminoantiguo | 888 | 621298 |
| z1wo5 | 861 | 33824 |
| blazing | 844 | 69196 |
| guurry123 | 812 | 36005 |
I dunno, maybe I'm expecting too much. And maybe I'm working too hard, as suggested by someone who I shared some of the data with earlier.
Or maybe Hive is evolving, and people are finding other things to do than commentate, like play Splinterlands?
Cheers
Asher
A huge hug 🤗 and a little bit of !BEER 🍻 from @amico!
Un caro abbraccio 🤗 e un po' di BEER 🍻 da @amico!
This is something I had worried somewhat about. Is it a lack of new blood? It doesn't look good. I suspect that in days gone by the numbers would have looked different because there were so many new faces grinding away to get somewhere. But maybe they just arent there or making the effort.
It is a bit worrying. There is a surprising lack of engagement from the classes that in the past were doing the most to get their name out there. What's changed? Dust voted comments? Better things to do like play cards?
It could be the cards or it could be the bottleneck in onboarding. If that is still a thing. Do we have the droves attempting to join and make something of themselves? Maybe our name isn't big enough.
I could do with a bottle :)
Nope, a fine opportunity for those that are arriving though?!
I certainly could too!! Mibbe lunchtime, lol
It's a great opportunity for those that arrive, if they arrive!! Fingers crossed they do!
It is worrying indeed that we old farts are at the top
It is, you would expect the likes of us to be more settled and not grinding away like a newb trying to carve their way in.
That becomes all the more worrying if you think that maybe we are taking it easier than we did at the start and yet are still at the top.
Telling post for sure....
I'll work with my community and see if we can spice up some comments and engagement from our red fish and minnows 😀
But wow, how the heck did I make that list of engaging Orcas...Dang, that's pretty cool lol :)
you lead by example that is how you made that list, or as you say show up every day and post and comment and up vote good content
It is fantastic to see a total of 3 members of ctp tribe on that list although I wish more were on that list including my self
Pretty awesome to see the CTP tribe up on those lists for sure. Loving it!! Well you know how to get up there, comment more ;)
How did you make the list of Orca's?
With 965 comments and 125389 characters. It's called engagement...The numbers don't lie and I bet you're enjoying the engagement right?
Can't beat it :) I love how much you guys crush on it on here...Keeps me fired up to improve my engagement everyday :)
It's hard work I gotta say...I mean, it's been three years of doing this for me...Posting 1.6 times every day (some 700-1500 words per post on average) and commenting etc. Still, I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. Neither would you. This is why removing monetary rewards and replacing it with enjoyment rewards has been so important for me. Keeps me motivated.
Fantastic point man. If we didn't love it, we wouldn't do it :)
Sounds like a plan. It's worrying that we need to encourage so much, I think.
Well done for making that list :)
Yeah and I'm sure there are bigger reasons for it, but for me I just wanna keep pushing the same message you are. The key is the engagement! The right people will pay attention and take action :)
Keep leading the folks to water, it's their choice after that :)
That's how :D Congrats!
Also if you succeed spicing up comments, please share you tips and tricks ;)
:) Thanks very much....Literally, showing up everyday and talking with the amazing community on HIVE. It's been a blast so far and look forward to keep engaging and showing up every day!
That's incredible dedication :D
I wish I was less impulsive, but it has creative benefits.
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Hi! These statistics are very interesting. I tell you my opinion.
I think those who arrive on Hive for the first time feel a little confused, it is not easy to find your own way and meet new people to interact with.
Personally, I try to do my best but the first times have not been easy.
Surely the Communities can do a lot in this sense, but perhaps a "break-in" time is needed to understand how everything works! Surely there are also many who, as you say, prefer to play cards, I'm not representing anyone, it is just my opinion.
Bye :)
it is a learning curve, and not the easiest one. but no social platform will just give you followers when you register, nor throw engagement on you. I always compared it to youtube. i have more than 250 videos there, and 212 subs. engagement is almost nonexistent.
There is a learning curve, but I don't think it is too hard to find your topics of interest and leave a comment.
On-boarding and guidance is a tricky one though.
You are both right. It's always interesting to find other points of view!
Thank you and have a nice day :)
Agreed, it's confusing, it can be hard to find content you like. It can be hard to find consistent content. There isn't enough things to do for newbies to stay engaged and excited.
It is a great thing that you take the time to gather this info. It is something that everyone needs to work on
Thank you, and yes, trying to earn via content should include some engagement I think.
As a minnow I think it's also hard to break into circles. Most of the dolphins and orcasa follow each other and tend to engage in banter. and with tribes it's hard to find good content tagged correctly that you actually interested in. Also these relationships spill onto discord and if you not active over there you kinda get less recognition on the chain.
Personally for me it's just been a lack of time. With all the added responsibilities of lockdown it's been hard to get around to doing anything extra.
I do definitely agree though. Comments are key to building your audience. And many users fail to realise this at the beginning. If noone takes you under their wing and shares some wisdom, you kinda swimming in circles. Also, maybe resourese credits play a role here. I do believe that gamifying this system to help users understand it better would help teach newbies the ropes.
thing is, a lot of those dolphins grew together. decent amount of people that i am in regular contact registered aprox the same period i did.
It is slow, and even with great content and votes on it, it is slow.
Sadly 99% of the redfish/minnow accounts that I had connected with and was "growing up together with" at the start of my journey have gone completely inactive and going out of my way to "lure" dolphins and orcas to my account seem quite a dirty and low tactic to me.
I also used to be active in Discord back in the day, but as already mentioned to Taraz, that drained me quite a bit and nearly cost me my job. ..and even from all the people that I connected with from there, I do not see those people still sticking around..
I would just dare to say that there's a generation of red-fish/minnows that just didn't survive.
Hugs and Coffee,
~Josie~
No luring is required...Just engage. Comment on our posts, talk with us. Most will respond and over time we build relationships that, if nurtured, will be lasting. I hate Discord so am not there much, but I'm on the blockchain and open for business.
Tagging bigger accounts is not cool, but engaging is...I did it myself, and still do, and so I know the benefits if done correctly.
Hahaha and here I was heading out to get some big fish treats to get you guys to visit. It's nice to know you guys are keen to watch out for the little fish without having us kissing ass.
Well, feeding me is always a solid way to get into my good-books...I eat just about anything. Lol.
Yep, no one likes a kiss-ass, maybe except for those with low self-esteem...Just engage...Have fun, converse, be interesting, fun...That's all it takes generally.
!ENGAGE 25
Interesting and fun! Damn that's a tall order! Now I have to go and get some personality!! 🙄
Lol. Well, I just looked at your blog. I don't think you'll have to go far to find some.
Hahahhaha! I guess grumpy and no filter is your kinda flavour then! Nice to meet you! You my kinda fish!
We're all different people and personalities so I reckon we might as well just be ourselves and provided it'd not hurting anyone there's no harm in it.
100% depsite being grumpy which is mostly due to poor sleep, I always try to be kind. But can't resist a good opportunity to inject some humour into a situation. I guess its my defense mechanism. Most of the time I mean we'll, like 99% of the time 😜
ENGAGEtokens.I think as long as you are mixing up who you speak to, there is no harm in this if done right.
Possible, if not a bit sad.
Yeah, but the power dynamics are still a lot different than just having a school of peers that you're more naturally growing up together with, as bigger fish are always going to be at least at the back of their minds a bit suspicious of your intentions - are you here just to target them for votes?
I remember more often than not I was deliberately NOT commenting on @Rok-Sivante posts even though I would have had a lot to say, just not to creep him out and make him feel like I'm targeting him, because a lot of small fish were doing exactly that. I for one was just really enjoying the kind of content he was creating.
Luckily for me, in the midst of all of that noise he has eventually noticed a person behind that pesky, persistent tiny red-fish, so I no longer have to worry about freaking him out with my comments. ^^
..Or like you just following me, also feels icky - oh, a pitty-follow.. I don't need that! xD I am by no means trying to complain here, I'm just a tiny fish voicing her observations, journey and loss of "my crowd". Natural selection has done its thing, and maybe I'm just slightly cautious in trying to find a new crowd, lest the same destiny befalls them too..
Hugs and Coffee,
~Josie~
Yeah it's not like school where you are same age, similar 'level', but we do have one thing in comment - we are all here :)
ha :) Well you are a new face to me, here commenting with some interesting points on my blog. This is how you get followed!
Pity follows don't exist! Pity upvotes on the other hand.... 😂
Awwww... I wish you had commented more, now that I know that.
You at the very top in my favorite books. I LOVE your comments. They always make my day. 🥰
aww, stahp it you! ^^ xD
ok. 🤭
I think you're overthinking it a little xD What's the worst that can happen by commenting on a bigger account? :D
I hope over time you'll feel more comfortable in general ^^
Good luck!
..mm.. well, it's more intricate than that.
I'm not overthinking. I might be overfeeling.. and overly sensitive to unspoken borders/boundaries in people's energies. I am also very perceptive of when people are being genuine and when they are "fake-kind", or even when they are bulshitting themselves. I have zero interest in bulldozing someone over just for some arbitrary "gain for myself", as I know from experience how draining that can be on the recipients' end.
It's not about "What's the worst that can happen by commenting on a bigger account? :D" but more about if I make the other person feel uncomfortable, drained and like I'm leaching on them or on the contrary, that I'm someone that can bring about some sort of value - maybe not with my dust upvotes, but maybe in a whole different manner.
The fact that our society has been "normalized" in people bulldozing one another over with their energies, that's a whole subject on its own one would have to take a separate deep dive in. ;)
Hugs and Coffee,
~Josie~
Ahh that makes more sense and I agree! (Am also sensitive, admittedly I find text energy harder to sense than in person) Which is why I at least try to be clear with what I'm saying usually.
Aww based on your energy I doubt you'd drain someone, likely opposite :)
Yeah I think some of those "active" accounts maybe post once a month or so, just to test the waters. SO maybe the stats are skewed a bit and it's not so bad ^^
Yeah I can't do discord as well. I'm here to engage on the blockchain. Throwing discord into the mix just takes up too much time. Life has alot of other responsibilities and it became a bit of a stress. Replying to multiple people all of the time. But I suppose it does help penertrate communities. If you have the time, it's prob to your benifit
It's a whole black hole on its own that ends up sucking up all of your time and then you end up with a community.. but wait.. a Discord community.. what happened to being on the platform?
And then it all goes bust due to petty interpersonal drama and power struggles in your new Discord community and you realize you've just wasted all that time you could have been focused actually creating content on the platform in the first place. xD
In a nutshell.
Hugs and Coffee,
~Josie~
I think what really got to me was the fakrness and ass kissing for the sake of upvotes. Like just be yourselves man. This is not high school.
can confirm that every time i am more active on Discord, i suck at posting stuff (not that i am great in posting last few months).
100%.it kinda sucks you in. I just become very unproductive with work as well.
I only jump into Discord when I recognize someone and want to catch up. Otherwise avoid it xD
Agreed. And then it's also finding peeps who's content you find interesting. It's easy to engage and pretend you find content interesting when you literally bored out of your mind reading the pieces. It gets old very quickly. I'd rather genuinely engage than kiss ass for an upvote! And so the journey has been slow for me as well. And many accounts I have connected with are long gone now!
i can just say that it was easier for me in terms that there were (and still are) a lot of photographers here, and that was my initial interest. and also trying to learn about crypto, as this was my first real contact with it. Communities should now be a place for finding people, but older accounts are kinda in transition with communities, it is a big change and i am for sure guilty for slow acceptance of it.
Yeah I get that. I too am slow on the uptake. I usually use Esteem though and they haven't really integrated the communities. So it is a bit of admin I'm avoiding!
i use peakd and they did a great with communities, but creature of habit, 2 years of doing something, hard to change fully.
Time is certainly a factor, and knowing that you are slowly making some progress.
Comments don't earn much directly, but I think they are important for breaking into circles.
100% but just trying to paint the picture to your question. But for the little little fish. I think it just boild down to resource credits. I mean how are you supposed to feel motivated with 3 comments a day?
It isn't great, but the change really helped reduce rewards farming and spam.
Hopefully in the future when RC delegations are a thing, no new account will come with ability to do much more than 3 comments.
Definitely some interesting data here! I have found in my experience that comments on many posts are near zero, or my longer posts don't attract comments lol
When I'm out there looking for people to interact with, a lot of times they don't get much love with the comments which is dismaying so maybe I will have to do a better job of educating them by having a nice copy/paste statement ready to drop on the bottom of my comment? Any way we can let them know that commenting on peoples stuff is the best way to get exposure!
It may seem like a bit of a bot-ish type thing but unfortunately so many of these people don't understand that they need to get their asses out there and comment on stuff if they want to have any hope.
Longer posts have a habit of getting less engagement - people seem to enjoy the short stuff more and more.
This could be worth a try!
Yeah I've noticed, I can't seem to cut things down to be a short post lol
I gave that structured comment a whirl and I actually did get a decent response on it with one of the guys I did it for. He's a new person here but has been trying to make his finances from online sources for a while so I gave him some tips that I personally think will help and will continue to follow his page to help him progress and see what he comes up with.
Hopefully I can get more people to engage with me about it just like he did!
For the minnows, I don't understand it myself, it is not like the days gone by when there were lots of people being down voted for making comments on post or for asking questions on post, I think those days are pretty much behind us. Finding content to enjoy has gotten a bit easier with the community system, so there could be a problem that new users, (and some old users), do not really understand the benefit of communities when it come to find things one likes.
For redfish it could be an issue with resource credits. You need about 30 HP to enjoy a full day of ten comments, 20 votes, and maybe a post.
Things are still pretty disorganized on Hive as it is on steem. When a person makes the plunge to join where do they go from there? Where are the user guides? Where is the how-to page, the FAQ page.
I know PeakD is trying to change some of this, but they are only one of the front ends, and even they have not gotten around to adding a FAQ or Welcome menu item on the drop down name menu. Yes they have the About menu item which does lead to a FAQ page, but it is the generic what is Hive FAQ's, not a link to the How to do it FAQ page they have been working on.
I think as time goes by, and things become more organized, and easier to use, that the numbers will turn around.
Yep, and so i do think there should be more activity from the smaller accounts.
I think this is a fair point - the user-journey is not so clear.
I have to work more to get on this list... Commenting is a crucial thing for building a healthy account... ;)
Thanks for this awesome post!
You're on the EL list so that should do it :) Cheers!
you are right... that SHOULD do it, but it doesn't! hahaha...
just joking and teasing others to engage more... ;)
Btw. You are doing a great job with your posts... They make an impact on others and make them more active... Thanks for doing that!
great post, I guess there might be a lot of "lurkers" which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It's normal for all social media websites. But yeah, more comments are always good :)
Lurking Minnows, perhaps. Better to have lurking Whales though :)
The reason why red fishes are not actively commenting may be due to a lot of factors. It could be as a result of less hive power, commenting is so restricting . I mean how many comments can be made using a new account?. Also most people think the network is mainly about making post and so they just come to dump their post expecting a miracle. Others don't get right information concerning the network and some people don't have people that are guiding them.
I came back on hive because @belemo was willing to mentor me.
I actually feel people should try to mentor people and encourage them to get more involved.
@tarazkp has been doing a lot of job in actually encouraging a lot of people including me.
Finally, some people don't like reading and this is the main thing for getting attention of you big boys on the blockchain
A new account with just 1HP can make 3 comments a day. as can be seen here https://hiveblocks.com/@vimmy
How can that encourage people yup engage if they are not motivated to do so? I powered up because i saw the benefits
I agree 3 comments a day is pretty daunting. When I started there wasn't this limit. But as soon as the fork hit, I struggled as well. Even if you reach out to new accounts, how are they suppose adequately engage with 3 comments! Also said 3 comments have a high chance of not even getting an upvote to yield payout. So how do you grow with 3 comments a day?
Thats exactly my point.. it is not going to be easy for any redfish that doesn't believe in the system . Trust me, it is hard to trust the system.
All you gotta do is be the spoon man. Be the spoon lol!!
Lol
I'm not sure Hive power is the culprit for the lack of engaged minnows.
It is good to have a mentor, but you are lucky in this regard and there are not many in the grand scheme of things who can mentor, especially if a raft of new users arrive.
Alright
Yeah, you keep saying I mentored you and it makes me feel special lol
By you did na.. i would have gotten tired the next minute i entered hive...
That's true. Well I'm glad it all worked out then
Ya
Damn! I better hold my tongue. I am way out of my league and totally fish out of water!
So, do let me know if you want me to be truthful or politically correct :)
If you want to speak your mind you don't need to ask permission.
Thanks, I was being sarcastic, and waiting on Ash's response, before I pelt him with pepper bullets..
In other words, neither do I hold my tongue, nor am I a fish out of water :)
But now I literally ruined the joke @meesterboom
Whoops, sorry for spoiling it.
Beat him with a bet!! ;0)
The joke may be lost but please do give me something, I like pepper 🙂
There's a selection element to this. The engaged minnows of the past, the people who worked to build their presence here, have lived through the long crypto winter where Steem was what, 8c again? They've had their opportunity to build up and also buy in cheaply. Those people have moved up in class. The others, the people who weren't putting quite as much effort in anyway, have left as they saw what little they had built was worthless anyway.
Also the recent surge for Hive appears to have been more driven by crypto speculators and the fork drama than new users.
Also, hive is still shit for the average user, who cannot be expected to be either a "content creator" nor a "curator".
Fair points.
So with a steady token 'recovery', we'll see more action from the smaller accounts?
I don't know. We have in the past, but other times not so much. I'm not sure Hive is appealing to the average person right now, particularly when they actually try to use it (rather than just in concept).
Stressing me out a bit as I don't know the solution. A new, simple phone app (like TikTok) could help?
I don't think so. IMO crypto can only be driven by ideology and financial benefits, not simplicity. We need to get simpler, but the old school centralized systems will always have the edge in inherent simplicity (at least until Keychain is a native feature in browsers and smartphones).
IMO the killer app of Hive is still simply money. Sound money that can work better and more easily than any other money on the internet. The social network aspects are a bootstrap for an actual internet economic ecosystem.
Thus our priority should be to ensure that new users are participating in the economic aspects of Hive (ie. they should be getting financial benefits for their participation). We need to encourage wider payouts and be less narrow minded about what counts as contributing value.
@eroche used to do bubble graphs about age and size of users getting payouts. User growth was consistently linked to newer and smaller accounts getting more of the rewards. That's going to be so much harder now though under the 50:50 author/curator paradigm.
And the one thing that nowadays we seem shy about advertising.
True, have the best days in relation to this been and gone?
A stable higher price would really help here!
You know, having additional like button without money attached just might help. Then People can like as much as they want, and it can affect visibility/popularity as much as payouts.
I have a feeling it would be gamed with alt accounts, and until Oracles / 1 person 1 (master) account, I think we are stuck with stake deciding.
True, but maybe it can be separated somehow, or marked. Could have downvotes too (without hurting the payout)
Great Post, make me proud to be dolphin 🐬
Good man!
There isn't a real incentive for good comments and imo the target shouldn't be the number of comments but the quality of them. Engagement has been the weak point of Hive and Steem for years.
Also, another hint, when you post something if you're an orca or a dolphin when someone comments you usually answer them. So there is a lot of comments in your own posts because you have a big list of followers, that isn't the case of a minnow or a red fish.
And of course is very concerning all this data.
Quality is tough to measure, but I agree it's not all about number of comments or amount of text. You know what they say though, throw enough shit at a wall and some will stick :)
I don't mean replying with 'nice post' all the time - one humorous sentence that shows a post has been read is a good start.
I disagree with that, only few are as responsive as @abh12345 :) Maybe if they get a lot of comments from one person they stop ignoring. I usually stop at 3 tries, after 3 no replies I feel ignored by that user xD
Maybe you're right and there are more of those who doesn't even bother in replying the comments in their posts, in my experience they do, because if they didn't I wouldn't even comment them. I was referring also to the weight that the amount of comments in their own posts has in the statistics. You have the example of this post with more than 100 comments that means that abh12345 has done 100 comments only to reply his followers, for me that has merit and I recognize his effort to satisfy and engage with his followers but it isn't the same merit nor the same value for me than make those 100 comments in other users posts.
Yup, I mentioned that as well and Abh12345 replied to my other comment that he might make another stat of how many comments are made outside of user's posts. :) I've seen down in comments another user suggesting the same and they might do the statistics analysis as well.
done :)
Which brings us nicely onto my newest post :)
I wasn't included in the list when I was engaging every day and leaving a comment for at least 10 accounts a day. Hmmm but I don't think your tools in getting information was wrong.
Do you mean the engagement league lists? I see your name on my master list so hopefully you will make it on them soon.
The big thing that I pick up here is that the redfish and the minnows are struggling with the systems.
We all know how difficult it is as we were all tiny fishes when we started.
That bad bunch, the big 5 Orcas has started an interesting venture recently calling for new members to submit their posts in a competition and the spin off was that many learned how to do better posts.
Maybe a pre-crypto-online school could be started by these masters?
Just my 1.5 cents here!
We could call it Hive School... We win together! ;0)
See you at the top.
Love it!
Omg you two xD Stop it please. I got ptsp from that hahaha :P
Heh heh ;0)
I expect more "poetry" from you guys from now on.
And philosophy!!!
Mek one poetry :D
ahahahaha
Yeah! A brilliant idea and you will be a perfect candidate for the principal position.
As long as the aliens don't bring you gifts during school hours lol.
You can never bank on what those bloody aliens will do!!
😄 😄 😄 👌
Lol.
It is tricky and requires some time to learn about the Hive, but surely there is more to it that that.
Thanks for the kind words, these contests take time and effort to organize, but I think there will be more :)
One has to start somewhere Ash and kudos because you guys did.
I scored a luck yesterday, as we are now getting 10 free licenses for Windows 365 and I have 8 new laptops. Free cloud storage the works.
So, brewing a new project to teach unemployed university graduates the ropes on Hive. There are thousands of them and most of them have mobile phones.
But I like to start small and we will see how it goes.
I wrote the English language tuition project for 20 students and within a few weeks we had over 300. A university became interested, trained me and my wife as TEFL teachers and the rest is history. 3077 unemployed graduates.
Thanks :)
Well that sounds great! New kit and training for Hive. I hope to see some new recruits soon enough, and make sure you announce them.
Ahh TEFL, I wondered what kept you there initially, great stuff!
TEFL was only one of the projects as we constantly ran 7 or 8 projects.
Basic computer training, Trauma training, Computer Refurbishment and placements at NGO's, Legal referrals project, Feeding project, Distribution project and a few short term projects in between this lot.
I am slowly getting all of the infrastructure together for the Hive training attempt. In fact I spoke today to a chap that knows the Python system and he said that a good start will be to firstly present a short coding course.
Will see how it goes!
I think the Redfish have it harder now than we did before, minnows not necessarily.
I've made a few tutorial posts in the past for presenting art, maybe I should dig them up and repost with some updates :) I can't seem to find them in search but I have backups of my best stuff.
Well, the 1 or 2 cent posts are never a pleasure, but one has to start somewhere. Your art presenting posts might be of great help to some souls. Good idea!
I think it screams out for your league to be introduced. Don't they know that is the only way to grow a following. This is not easy but at least make an effort. I don't do my 8 hours a day anymore but ok maybe 6 ,but still I have grown past that point already. Has Hive somehow lost accounts that haven't moved over from Steem? It just looks like we left some somewhere as the numbers are down it seems. Not a train smash as we can get new users who want to grow.
I'm wondering if it is the only way any more. Another commentator mentioned accounts being 'spoiled' by curation groups - perhaps just solid posts works the same as getting involved in comments for hours each day.
Possibly that could be the answer. They wont grow properly though and will be like loads of individual accounts keeping to themselves. If somehow those groups stop curating they have nothing to fall back on. We have seen things change before and they will change again as nothing is guaranteed.
Engagment is low as more and more people see that engagement will not get u far (in a shorter term period). Too much time invested for almost nothing.
Small users follow big ones. Big ones are not around engaging except on other whale posts. Result of that is people not engaging as before and they will not engage unless they see the leaders doing it.
It is way better to create some small circle jerk or use autovote service than engage on other posts. Sadly.
#dpos
BTW I hope I will see a lot of changes in this segment as I also want to go back engaging and reading a lot of posts per day. But, I believe change must come from the top.
Some of them used the system to gain enormous amount of Steem so it would be great from them to give back a bit more than what they think is enough.
Peace yo,
Mr. Spacely
If you are looking at value on comments votes then yes, but what is the value if you attract accounts to your blog - could be a lot over time.
I think we have to assume stakeholders will not comment much. I think you need to find a group of like-minded people are ride the Hive with them.
I think everyone is overthinking everything...
Yes, engagement can be tiring and takes time, but we really don't have to do it alll the time for it to be effective. I'm sure more would help, but even little engagement has effect.
I personally think we are missing the good old contests from back in the days. Contests always brought various people together, regardless of vote value.
I just missed seeing the fishes from the see based on their weight and power. Being just a Redfish I am hoping the big whales won't eat me!
Hahhaha thee is a better chance of them ignoring you than eating you! I'd say you safe dude!
I think it's because the dolphins know each other, follow each others, and friends with each other, that's why it is very, very easy for them to engage with each other. They all have weathered the storm together on Steem and now on Hive. Because they have been interacting with each other for a few years now, it's more like they have known each other beyond virtually. Looking at them, they seem to be already like a family to me.
I have always believe that having friends here on Hive will make you stay. But it is very difficult to have one, or enter a group/community that each have its set of own rules and regulations, and are thriving on their own without you. So whether you are in there are not, they will all continue the lives they live.
I am speaking as a minnow. All my friends have left the platform, because of different personal reasons, and because they can't see "life" here. Everyone has their own lives. It's hard to get in.
I don't even know why I stayed. Maybe because I love to speak out my mind, and this is my way out. And maybe because somehow I get at least some of the dolphin's and orca's attention, so it moves me to get going.
It's not about dolphins or orca, its about making that connection by talking to the author about it.
Not really, friend doe snot means that you both should upvote each other, friends out here also means if you are interacting with that person regularly.
If you are creating content, you will get the attention no matter what is your status.
Yes, it's not about being an orca or a dolphin, what I mean is, because friendship is already established between them, the flow of conversation is very fluid. So they can banter and exchange lengthy conversations. But a new comer can never have that same kind of conversation. Hence, this also can affect the data being considered by @abh12345.
Please don't get me wrong @codingdefined. I am just stating an honest opinion and this is what I've experienced.
I am doing my best to create good content blog, but I don't get the attention everytime. And that's OK. Perhaps my best wasn't good enough, and I still have so much to learn to catch other's attention. However, when I see other's effortless post but they are well received, it is sometimes discouraging.
But that is not the point. What I am pointing out is that it is easy for the dolphins to have such great data because of the friendship and interaction that has build up through the years. Minnows still have so much to do in order to achieve that. And when they do, when they have established friendship, before they know it, they have grown to be dolphins themselves! 😁😜
That's true, but again all the dolphis and orca were minnows one day and how they have started just by casually starting the conversation. I hope everyone can do it, you reply tp the same author 10 times, I am damn sure he/she will reply you 5 times atleast.
Its not about getting ou wrong, its about making everyone aware that how this works, overnight no one will become star, we need to put effort initially, and thus when the effort is visible you will get rewards for your content. Just like here, you have started te conversation and thus this is how we can start talking more, one conversation starter is rquired to talk more.
Hahaha! 😂 You are so right! 😜 We really need to put effort to build friendship, and initiate conversation. As they say, 'to be a friend, be one.' 😍
That's absolutely correct
It sounds like you, as with many others, just stuck at it long enough to get noticed -it's tough for a while, but this 'while' can be shortened if you are getting involved in commentary, I think.
Yes, you have me there! I will also do my best to engage and comment as well. 😍
First of all, timely thing, I saw in London, residents are throwing stuff at London Police. I think London Police don't even carry a gun. And please correct me if I am wrong, London police probably only killed 2 unarmed individuals in their history! So your countrymen must get their priorities straight! They don't really know what "police brutality" is :)
We do on this side of the pond. We do appreciate the moral support. But please don't hit your Policemen... they are nice people!
With that hyperbole : let me can back to the point at hand (now you wonder how I get total length of 92153 and handsomely beat Marky who posts and comments lot more than me :)).
So what do I think? I think most minnows suck! Please don't get me wrong, there are some excellent minnows out there. But we need to talk about statistically significant population: I see several kinds:
Did I miss any?
Likely you have gone to bed. For the rest, I will hold my thought.
I think most are "NOOBs" only and when they get clue about it they take a different paths like whether to be a scammer or whether to be a content creator.
Count me out of the violence , not my thing at all!
I laughed, and agree with most of your points. So what can we do to help, if anything?
I think many of us are doing it already, maybe not in any organized manner, but it's happening. Maybe we find noobs who are honest and something to share. Most people do. We all have something to share. But either we keep them guarded or we don’t know how to share. Maybe we can help showing how.
I guess so, it doesn't feel like enough :/
Does the ENGAGE token need to be brought back?!
soon :)
It's sort of working but needs a few tweaks I think.....
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.It should be you getting the vote not me.
You got some tokens though
When the vote is fixed I will trail it again, see if that sends us to the moon :)
Ouch D: I'm a minnow!
Jk
maybe....
nothing wrong with that. See, you are not so quiet anymore! :)
True but as an introvert, I spend energy on interacting even if it's fun. While others can feel more energized from talking :)
Truth
One issue is a red fish with no delegation and 0HP can make a total of like 3 comments before being out of RC.
Another thing is that most probably don't realise that comments can generate a decent amount of rewards assuming people actually upvote them. I personally upvote every comment I get that has decent substance in it and isn't something I disagree with.
The general narrative I hear when comments are mentioned is that they don't give very good rewards so you shouldn't bother with them. This is in regards to curation and voting which is a terrible narrative to sow. It can make people think that commented itself is a pointless endeavour when it comes to rewards.
Another factor is I see a lot of talk in general about how to posting and curated posts and how good it is but I see very little talk about commenting and upvoting comments etc.
That's what, people signing up here things that all post can generate more than $10 but they don't actually see how much a person has build his reputation as well as he is working for the community to get that amount. I remember when you create an account you get 15HP delegation, isn't it true now?
Not aways, some account creators do delegate but the 15hp was done by the steem it stake back on steem.
Actually one thing I noticed is a lot of users, yourself included, only have paid out old posts. I don't mind posting on old post if it really catches my eye, then I usually tip. I'm not a stalker enough to check who comments where 😂
But yeah, my point is a lot of bigger accounts don't have active posts to interact with from what I've noticed.
This is a wake up call. As a goal oriented individual, I should strive to get in the top positions when it comes to commenting. But for me, it also needs to be organic. I try to give a comment on posts that grab my attention and are interesting to me. Also, it takes time to learn how to navigate the platform and learn about blockchain and crypto. But yeah just to read posts and follow people who publish content that I can relate to takes time.
It's a good approach - no point commentating for the sake of it, and perhaps where there isn't much of it around...
Thanks for the informative and very practical posts whennit comes to growing the HIVE platform. :)
Yes, it still is the case but that works best when there’s a big flow of new users. We are only reaching the 13 weeks stage now. Numbers will most likely change again after this point and become more representative of where we truly are at, can expect.
Sometimes I wonder if “Mark as Read” is a better measure of real account activity.
It's still early days on Hive but I think data would look similar prior to Hive.
Not sure, will go for chin-up and half a smile :)
Most of the minnows are people I recognize...probably because they engage.
Yep, the ones making an effort should gain HP quickly.
Good work, Dolphins!
And orcas! :D
Looks like I got lost in a sea of dolphins.
Better power up to orca.
Good plan. Chunky orca :)
Agree, this stats look a bit weird.
I'm a minnow myself 😅
A good chance to stand out from the crowd of seemingly mostly silent minnows :)
yeah, it seems to be :)
i have tendency to swim against the current 😂🍻
Interesting statistics. There could be many reasons I suppose, with laziness being one of them. I remember commenting a lot three years ago when I started. If my memory serves me correctly, I still do...Because I'm trying to build relationships and nurture existing ones.
For me it's about the quality of the comment, those I receive from the very small accounts. If a person can't do volume, then do quality. I think a redfish can comment about 3 times a day without a power up? Not much anyway... However they waste them with rubbish like nice post dear, that I personally ignore.
We can't make them do it, or to stop them being lazy and leaving ineffective, or no, comments I guess, however we can guide them.
An education process maybe, pinned posts on (all) communities outlining some good techniques to engage...We recently did the posting initiative and had a lot of entries, but where were the thousands of others who could have opened up new opportunities with larger accounts? Oh yeah, they didn't bother.
All I want is for someone to open a conversation in my own post, to start the ball rolling. I'll respond because I'm polite, but it has to capture me. From there, relationships build. I have left many comments on a small user's post only to receive a thanks in responses. OK, I'll move on, you lost an opportunity. Do they not know how to build relationships in real life? Are they really so clueless? Maybe so, one can only assume it from their actions.
Anyway...
I'm happy to see my name on the Orca-list...The first reference to me actually being an Orca. I worked hard to gain it. I started on the 13th June 2017...Orca inside of three years, mostly organically...I'm happy with that.
Hey Asher...
Nice post.
Lol.
Cheers!.......
Oh ok, I'll add a bit more :P
Lazy and crap at relationship building - stern words, but could be the case for some.
It is still the case though isn't? Work hard, get something, don't work, don't get much?
Someone made a comment about the curation projects 'spoiling' users with votes - is engagement taken in to consideration by these projects? If not, then why bother - just make your post look good.
The message about the need for, and value of, engagement seems not to be getting through for some reason. Everyone looking for a short cut maybe, And not realising that there really isn't one. Maybe people thinking (hoping) they will strike it rich by gaining the favour of a large account and so tagging them in every post is where they're at. You know, would like to thank dan, acid and some other big account for being my hive inspiration and mentor...Pathetic. But, maybe people see that as a better option than engaging and doing the work. It isn't of course.
Yes, the curation projects possibly have a hand in it rewarding people for very little effort. I see this one guy posting absolute shit, I mean total rubbish, but there he is getting reasonable rewards...He doesn't engage, and receives zero comments on his posts...But he gets paid...There's many others also. Maybe that's the problem Asher. There's a habit of little effort here. Same as society in the real world.
Indeed. Well first I'd just like to thanks @tarazkp for being my mentor and friend... :)
I did a few stats yesterday, so many posts rewarded by well known curation groups without a comment. I guess they could be trying to uncover the author but do think they if they are continually rewarded without needing to engage that it sets a bad precedent.
I agree completely, engagement should be promoted as keenly as a post itself. I've ceased to vote on users in the past because they didn't engage, despite them doing good posts. Not getting a response to a comment I leave is a sure way to push me away.
That's a great point.
Personally I met and engaged most with people through contests 2 years ago. A lot of those people are inactive, but I'm sure some will come back :)
I really don't think it's lazyness, they probably assume they need a number of posts behind them before being a part of the platform, just like other social media. Maybe they think they need that 1 viral post to really get engaged.
I first assumed based on this comment size that you leave big comments and get just thanks as a reply O.o but to be fair, your other comments (that I quickly clicked one) are 1-2 sentences long. Sometimes thank you is all that feels fitting. Just coz your rep number is bigger doesn't mean others will initiate full conversation. This isn't a criticism just trying to see things from a different view point :)
Thanks for your comment.
Everyone is free to do what they wish here, to take the actions they feel are most appropriate, productive or enjoyable to them and their needs. I engage a lot, 620 comments last week with 168,810 characters plus 11 posts of somewhere around 800-1500 words each...It's just what I do. Others choose to do it differently. It's all personal choice.
Looking at a few of my comments from this week won't tell the story , I've only made about 250 comments since Monday and most are short because I have been dealing with my ailing father who suffers dementia...Looking at my activity over the last three years is a better indication I guess.
Anyway, it's all relative. People will do as they see fit and will reap the rewards of that which they sow.
I agree, everyone has ups and downs and burnouts.
Like I said I wasn't judging, I've been away for a year because of mourning, my activity from before that was also better.
I'm very sorry for your father :(
Sometimes I feel like I need a break, but when I think about not engaging on hive, reading and writing posts, it feels like I'd be taking something away from myself that I enjoy, and so here I am.
I started on June 13 2017 and since then have posted an average of 1.6 times per day on every single day since...That's 1088 days straight, and thousands of posts. I see it as enjoyment, as a way to break out of my work-day or whatever is going on in my life at the time. I enjoy writing which is evidenced from the average word count of my posts being about 900 words, and have made the writing and engaging the reward here, rather than the money.
I understand that many would not want to keep up that work-rate, but for me...Well, I don't see it as work, but relaxation, a hobby.
Thank you for your comment about my dad...It has been a terrible week.
!ENGAGE 20
I admit I missed blogging, and my expression suffered for now writing. My sister instantly noticed improvement in my texts after I got back to blogging. My thoughts can be a mess and writing helps me slow down and get things straight.
Thank you for the engage <3
Congrats on 1k days straight posts :O
Yeah it certainly was fun and once it felt like work I was burned out. I get burned out from doing art a lot and still haven't figured out best balance.
I lost my parent last year and it fucking sucks, it feels so unfair, I still get a lump in my throat just expressing it. I have never seen dementia in person but just reading about it too much. :(
Dementia is often worse on the families than the actual patient, at least from an emotional perspective. My dad does not know who I am, cannot recall my name, or that I am his son. It's pretty hurtful.
My mum died when she was 59, of cancer, in a really terrible fashion...It was a terrible time, but with my dad it's been a long slow decline and so the pain is drawn out. I work to give him the dignity he deserves, to keep his pain to a minimum, (He has a terrible wound that will never heal and that cannot be treated - It is truly horrific to behold) and make his last moments as comfortable as possible.
I'm pragmatic, death comes to us all, but whilst I can I will make the end of my dad's life as respectful and pain free as possible.
ENGAGEtokens.Thank you :D
I think it is important to notice active engagement and well thought comments for a post. If feels good to know that people actually take the time to read you. Smaller accounts should put in more effort, I agree
I'd like to visit more people, just tough at times with lots of comments here.
For smaller accounts though, I think there is more time to visit others and try to attract them to your work.
Yes, it is not easy. I was actually thinking what if in future Hive would grow so much that a festival could be organised? HiveCon lol. With people from here actually meeting, with competitions, awards, information. Wouldn't that be awesome?
I think that is certainly a possibility. I managed to attend 2 Steem Fests and really enjoyed meeting the faces behind the names :)
It would be great, putting a face behind all of the posts....
I find this post very interesting... I’d say it doesnt surprise me but more confirms. I appreciate you taking the time to create this @abh12345
In my case I keep creating... and comment a bit on friends and occasionally a post that caught my eye.... but in general i got burnt out. I really disliked the entire experience of the justin sun saga....both sides sucked to me in many ways... though i recognize the why’s and what’s.
I do hope hive emerges into something... just struggling to personally care.
I’m really enjoying making my dumb little videos... i figure that is the key... do what i enjoy and see if the energetics of the community bubble up at some point. I would always jump on a positive wave... just not into making any waves at the moment.
Fair enough man, thanks for the comment.
You have some HP, and so it's not critical to spend so much time here, especially if you are not feeling it at present.
When you think about it though, this list isn't overly surprising. A lot of established generally get more engagement in their post and just from replying and interacting with people that comment on their stuff, they could get a lot more comments than say me, who gets excited every time two people respond to mine. Compare that to a redfish who barely understands how the platform works, struggles to even find the particular content they like and then resource credit issues. Not to mention the fact that established accounts already have friend circles and shit.
True but when I began, I had 0 engagement too, like most.
And so I ventured out to other posts, and did that for a long time, likely commenting as much as I do now (on my own replies). Maybe you are right, I just expected to see more from the smaller accounts.
They just need to encounter certain people that will make this place fun for them. I find that while the money is an incentive if people aren't having fun, they won't want to interact and vice versa if they are. I'm speaking from experience
A couple of questions come to mind:
Does this seem to follow society in general? IE: people sign up for all kinds of things and then just don't follow through? Think 80/20 (Pareto principle) rule.
When you have the metrics above for contents, over what timeframe is that? You say since "This second table shows the total comments made by each class on Hive since the 20th March" What's significant about that date?
Is there a way to determine how long after account creation we see minnow and redfish (of which I am one) fall off and stop using the platform?
Thanks for the post. I would definitely encourage figuring out how to get the 80% to engage.
-Rob
I
As you say, perhaps we need to write off 80% and focus on the 20% - That would still give us 200,000 accounts.
Well, I wouldn;t want to 'write off' the 80%. I am a firm believer that most people in the 80% group can be reached if the right methods are used. :)
And thank you for the response and the well-written post.
A new redfish\soon to be minnow,
-Rob
There's a correlation with price action
I think so.
But would a price encourage more Minnows than other classes to join in, maybe.
They are having fun!
I am glad to hear it!
A lot of people that I used to share comments with are simply not around any more or post very rarely. Also most of the time I don't receive upvotes for my comments ( or they are insignificant )
The lack of reward for commentary has put some off I thing, thanks for making that point.
I was wondering about the stats for the Redfish group. Does that group include all the accounts created and basically never used as well (that have commented at least once on Hive)? If someone created an accounts, left one comment and didn't come back since, it is not really an active account.
Would the number change a lot if it would consider only those that have posted at least 1 post/for each week that they are here?
I remember when I joined, every possible post that was explaining what to do on Steem, was saying about engagement. Original content, and comments (not spam) to get the visibility needed. Also patience and persistence.
In some of the comments I read that new account can barely comment due to lack of RC. Could that be the issue for new account that to get discouraged to fast (again.. lack of patience and persistence. They want results fast and now)?
Would be cool to compare the engagement data with Steem from 2-4 years ago.
A different thought.. Could it be that curation groups spoiled them? They don't have to fight for visibility. Put original content, proper tags and just wait. If they don't get enough, they leave instead of trying harder (via comments for example), or just continue in their own pace.
Nice info. Always interesting to see some stats :)
So there are 11000 Redfish that have commentated since the birth of hive
and yeah, their output is worse than the Minnows but I assume quite a few are one post and leave as the price is a quarter of what it was 2/3 weeks ago, and/or they lacked the RCs to do anything and gave up.
This is a fair point I think, curation groups tend to vote the content and are not too concerned about the engagement of the creator (Although @carlgnash did like to check for engagement when he was active).
Cheers :)
Here is something for you to think about:
I have been around steem (now hive) for something like 3-4 years.
Most of my stake came from doint translations for @utopian-io, but on the way, i wrote about a lot of stuff i like to write, and always engaged when the topic of a post was interesting for me.
I didn't created an obsession about receiving upvotes. Sure, it is amazing, and i was always happy to receive them.
But after some time, i stopped "chasing" whales and curation projects, and all the bullshit "tips" about "growing your account" here.
Why? Because 98% of those with influence(mostly big) around here don't really care about the community, or helping anyone else grow, despite the public declarations about how they want to help.
Why am i so sure?
Because i tried. I commented, connected, talked with a lot of people on discord (specially the big ones), tried to push interesting content related to STEEM/HIVE, reached out to those that i thought could find my topics interesting (no, i didn't begged for votes) and guess what happened these 98% of the time? I got ignored by the same people that make huge posts about how you must "engage" with the "community".
There is very few who gave me attention, "even if it was only to say that they did't had the time to talk", but most of them just.... ignored, like i was some kind of second class citizen that wasn't worthy of their attention.
(A special shootout to @lukestokes, @themarkymark and @crimsonclad. They are the ones that i could feel they were truly paying attention when i talked with them about something.)
You want a reason whey most of the people don't stick around? Because of the hypocrisy.
There is a huge gap between what most (not all) preach and what they actually do.
"Engage", they say.
But interesting enough, they don't seem to be willing to engage back (unless they are somehow getting a direct benefit from it).
I think it does depend on the individual, some just aren't so chatty. I must admit, if I had a stack load of HP I would likely post less and engage less.
I've always thought that new/smaller accounts, looking to grow their account via content should be the ones making the most effort, and so when I see it's the account in middle range doing it (and putting out contests to try to encourage below), I'm a bit concerned.
The issue isn't about how big the stake is.
The problem is the discrepancy between what they say and what they do.
And this kind of action have a very short-time effect.
They do what they are asked to do for some time, but as soon as people realized they aren't getting the same respect back, off they go.
At some point in the past, as their accounts grew their ego bloated with it, and they started to think they are way too important to deal with 'peasants'.
I'm not sure how big the accounts are you are talking about, but there's no chance a whale is going to spend all day commentating like some of us do.
The harsh reality is that they don't need to make friends, but at least they are hear with HP and hopefully trying to grow the network this way.
Another shoutout to @crimsonclad, she's the epic metal lady :D
She remembered me after I took a year break. Really touching <333
I am a red fish but very active hoping to make minnow by September. I have been spending most of my time in @clicktrackprofit and have realized I need to expand my communities to start accumulating HP tokens faster. I will never leave CTP but I can do more.
That makes sense. It's good to have a home but also a good plan to try to expand horizons.
While i love the concept a lot and i love the platform, i love the new paradigm, love decentralized part of it, love the community that sticks around i think the system and gamification through financial reward in general is broken.
You can argue or preach speeches but the number remain more or less the same through many years, even the names in the tables above i know for more than three years. A bunch of nice folk indeed, but no fresh blood.
If you are really interested it's my take why things are the way they are, since there was a rhetorical question WHY?
The rewards will never be enough to motivate creation of quality content on a bigger scale, hence if this being the only driver of engagement it will not scale well. The rich will get richer and the rest will try to please them for a treat. And this is wrong, consequently...
As it was stated in the comments already finally it will turn into plutocracy where you'll have to spend your time to say nice things to people you want to get a treat from. I'm sorry but there is no way around it and honest discussion with salt of criticism will get you a downvote instead of an upvote 99 time of 100.
.
Sense of unfairness is still there and i bet smaller fish feels it much more than the others, while i get the concept of engagement and i like it organically, but if i am supposed to make myself to engage on boring posts for my content to be discovered and possibly upvoted.... cmon guys :)
Since i do not like people that are only criticizing and not offering possible solutions (not necessarily working ones, but at least ideas) here is my resume:
Hive token needs dapps that would give it utility. Let's say some photography dapp would let you to pay a part of camera price with hive at a very good discount through a partnership. Events dapp would offer unsold concert ticket's to be sold with Hive, that way businesses would get at least something instead of nothing, and would gain influence on a platform by advertising future events with the cost of unsold tickets. There are more drastic ways to improve the blockchain rewards mechanism itself, but it's not worth mentioning since that would mean diminishing power of big boys club.
So while hive paradigm is very interesting and requires further research and experimentation it will work in some instances better than the others. As for blogging it always will spin around the few bigger fish and not so
much around the content.
But so it does in nature... maybe we aren't meant to brake the loop :)
Still i find it interesting, vibrant small community that will hardly ever scale to IG, FB or even reddit level.... unless somebody comes with an ingenious dapp that will utilize inherently flawed reward distribution mechanism in some clever way. It could have been SMT's...
I am waiting for that day.
Fair enough on the three points. I'm not wanting people to sell their soul, but was expecting to see a little more Minnow drive.
You and me both, and I think SMT will appear this year...
Me too... also it's a bit tricky to judge on a sheer number of comments, character count may reveal a different story or it may not. Most of my comments are far more lengthy and in depth than majority of my post, due to the nature of content i am creating. So... statistics is not always showing a full picture.
On the other hand, there might be underlying reasons why we have such numbers. Maybe such interaction is not interesting enough, or... not worth time and effort... or just patterns how different account types engage with the content. We can not deny that bigger accounts have much more incentive for a platform to grow and Hive token price to appreciate in value, hence, more commitment.
My main message always was that we can not create a certain set of rules that initiate some certain activity pattern, and then preach the same people to act differently and try to convince them to do something they do not enjoy
While there is certain number of people that like it just the way it is, maybe even myself included, it does not mean that platform will suddenly start booming or scaling up just because we'd like that to happen if we do not change the core rules how it is incentivising people to act.
From simple rules, complex systems are born. And frankly, exSteem or Hive rules are not that simple and has quite a steep learning curve.
And also... what i have probably skipped in my original comment. Posts here have a very clear rewards ceiling (ok Hive goes to the moon, long term commitment, or it may never go to the moon). For now creating original content just for Hive is not very efficient. While let's say on YT you have a clear formula you put X amount of time into content creation then you multiply it by Y (quality) and given enough persistence you could be making 6 figures in two to three years. It's very simple and clear to grasp. While our case is quite a different story.
I agree that comment count isn't the best indicator and maybe they would be different when ordered by text output - neither defines 'interesting' though.
Regarding YT and Hive rewards ceiling, I think because the pool is shared this will always be the case. Things would look better with 2/3$ Hive, but I'm not sure how likely that is, at least in the near term.
Absolutely. I agree with every word you are saying.
On one hand financial incentive makes Hive, on the other hand it breaks it. It might be a very nice addition if there was a nice dapp that would get organic traction and Hive would be incorporated in it's core to provide some utility.
That utility in turn might increase demand a bit, a lot or by huge margin hence increasing the price at the same time. But it will only happen if let's say the dapp has huge traction and allows you to advertise using Hive token in a meaningful way and extend the reach of your brand my a lot.
IF in such case 1 Hive could generate you 10 000 unique impressions the value would correlate directly with that fiat cost of such exposure increasing price of Hive token. It's not rocket science, but for that we must have a dapp that would get organic traction and for that it must feel fair and very fun to use.
Yeah, It does feel like a double-edged sword at times. I hear rumblings that we shouldn't promote the monetary aspect of Hive in on-boarding efforts, and while I understand why, this aspect is also one of the best features.
I'm wondering (back to SMT again) that dapp/advertising will come via other tokens. An investment from Nike could be in HP to get the ball rolling, but also more heavily into a SPORTS token where they could have a major say in what is highlighted within that niche.
Agreed, and contiunally hopefully this will come :)
I share the same view, so i guess we have to wait for SMT's to roll out on Hive and see what dev community will build utility wise.
For myself, I've just been burned out for months. Not just on Hive/Steem, though, in life in general. My activity has rather tanked, though I'm still around. Just living in a fog most days.
I'm sorry to hear about this :(
Do you think global events are having an impact?
It started before that. It's just my health issues shifting gears, I think.
Hope you get well soon! The fog is so accurate, I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. Sometimes it's just hard to focus the eyes and read text. Other times it's fine. Nothing to do with glasses and I regularly take supplements :/
Oh I hate that! I get that sometimes too. I want to thwap my head like it's the juke box on Happy Days. XD
Hi Asher,
I am currently interested in getting information about the most engaging accounts, which is different from the most engaged ones (that you shed some light on in your post). To basically see where the engagement is coming from, and put that together with where it is going to.
I am actually planning to include some similar stats into the STEMsocial distilled, from next (or next-to-next) week on-wards. I am interested in seeing, at the level of my community (so that I am sure engagement is a real engagement as I can check it with my eyes), who is acting as a true community member in the sense of taking care of others, and compare that onto who is getting engaged most (and may not even care).
That sounds good, will you be querying the blockchain directly or using HiveSQL?
I had a look at children (replies/comments) on posts since hive, the order of the list is the average number of children per post.
Let me know if I can be of any help, cheers.
I have my own python scripts using the Beem library developed by @holger80. I still need to finalise that but I was busy with writing a research paper on detector simulations (it is now finished so that I could have again time for other things).
I agree, one need to be active to build up your account!!
For sure! It's slow going for most, but always moving forward :)
As ever with empirical data, I guess there are countless layers of stories buried deep within. For instance I class myself as 'engagey' lol. However I am needlessly verbose and usually find a lot to pass comment on within those posts that pique my curiosity or speak to my personal values.
The upshot of this is that often I spend more time on a comment than a post sometimes, ((more often than I would care to admit...)) I am given the advice to talk less and get around more people with increasing regularity. I struggle with the concept of quality vs quantity though and believe to go down a different route would detract something from my style of interaction.
Similarly with my posts, I talk on a lot of topics that are incredibly important to me, self-improvement, the state of society, political discourse and I always like to get to the bottom of the matter at hand, often losing myself within furious keyboard spark emission inducing sessions. Because of this I simply do not have the energy levels to put out a post every day, this will of-course handicap my growth also, but I own it.
I realise this has impeded my progress significantly but I enjoy my time among the community and long-since gave up all notion of making any tangible financial reward barring the most unprecedented moon in history lol.
I have observed those for quite some time who 'trow content at the blockchain and f#@% off' it is disingenuous, speaks of a person who has no genuine intent to engage or have a discourse on whatever matter is being discussed and tells me that the person cares not a jot about anyone else's life and begs the question...
Why should anybody care about theirs???
I always said I wanted to reach minnow status under my own power, to prove I had gone through the apprenticeship as it were and then and only then would start investing. I am a whisker away from official minnow status. So my journey is about to begin in earnest. I have suffered a myriad of health issues in my time on the blockchain and had a lot of real life setbacks to contend with. I work 12 hour shifts and my progress is sporadic because of this.
I didn't curry the favour of any single big user to get there, didn't use bots and never had the support of any 'sugar daddy or mummy' lol. BUT I have enjoyed my journey. There was one significant opportunity that I had to make faster progress than my normal trajectory. That was when yourself and Daniel were supporting users with a comment contest and I won a 500 delegation for a short spell. Sadly I was new and didn't realise how to maximise the opportunity this offered... We live and learn, right? Ideally!
I resolved at that time that once I was able to support newer users in a similar initiative, I WOULD! That is one of my key plans moving forward and I intend to suck many in to my own orbit of engagistic magnificence ((Yup I just make sh#@ up!))
Sorry to go onandonandon Ash.... That was pretty much the theme of the comment though right? So should not have been entirely unexpected 🤣
I hope to try and guide a hand full of people at a time to the realms of engagement on steroids! as I move forward in coming weeks and I hope the thing people take away from your post is to only engage with the bigger accounts as I know that you were not saying that for one second.
Obviously considering your position on the blockchain I am preaching to the choir, I know this, especially when one looks at the initiatives you spearhead. Thank you for all you do in the name of engagement Ash, it is massively appreciated 😎
In the coming months I anticipate a lot of users saying who the F is this @stevenwood dude, expecting that I have come from nowhere, not realising I have been plodding along in the background, awaiting my meteoric metamorphosis and evolution to what is about to come 😉 #Bringonthefuture
As this is about engagement I want to single out a user who has always exceeded my expectations on sheer amount of engagement but as I have engaged with him a few times on the recent delegation contest I have to say I was blown away by the sheer depth of his engaging comments and witty style and wonderfully encouraging nature, I refer of-course to @galenkp ((haha I just scrolled down knowing he would be below in the nitty-gritty of the comments section... Yup of-bloody-course!))
Speaking of the delegation contest, kudos to yourself and everyone who had a hand in it, the engagers and big congratulations to the popular winners, without community, it could never have happened 😎
Far to many words as usual, sorry Ash lol. I wanted to add a few thoughts and some personal perspective on the post re: engagement.
Take good care of you and yours, enjoy the journey 😎
You said it, not me :)
Back to the rest of the comment!.....
I have a similar energy issue, but it's the comments that take up much of my time.
Well, thanks for the write up - getting the first 500 HP under your belt has taken some time, but it seems you'll be ramping up once the total is met.
Thanks for the kind words regarding the contests and engagement in general, I do try to come up with initiatives for the community with my content, and not have it so one dimensional - there's no point me getting to 100,000 HP if there is no-one else here to chat to!
Have a good weekend :)
Thanks a lot for the mention, did not know that I was this high up with engagement, keep up your awesome work.
!tip
No worries dude, you too!
Now that is some serious data analysis, a very interesting read for a Hive newbie. Even more good stuff to be read in this comments section. It seems a lot of time is required to build any sort of audience on the platform, more so than 'off blockchain' platforms. I like how people seem to be much more invested in their content on here, probably due to the fact they're willing it to be a successful cause. Looking forward to seeing where this takes us.
That's my thing, although I do like to relax a little too :)
It certainly does, and there are no shortcuts (huge stake and epic content helps). I checked your vid, a nice edit. Not a skateboarder myself, but I do like a solid coffee.
Hope you can find your groove and settle in, hopefully it will bear fruit down the road.
Orcas and dolphins get way more comments on their posts. Replying to comments is way faster (not necessarily easier) than finding interesting posts to comment on.
I'm thinking of ways to increase comment engagement on my posts, it was easier way back when I started posting :)
I agree with @josie2214, it can be awkward reaching out to new bigger accounts, but so far I've had only positive responses (or no response at all) :)
I think more people will come back sooner or later, my brother hopes to start posting after exams, so maybe some others will too :)
It is true that orcas and dolphins get more engagement on their posts, maybe I should be looking at comments made not on own post... hmm.
Some things never change :)
If you can find stats like that, it would be awesome :D
According to @dalz's latest stats I think the later gets it!
Some good commenting going on mid-level though!
But ever-decreasing circles?
And with a new high market cap for Splinterlands, why not!
Good mid-level commentating but does look like circles :(
It is quiet around here for sure!
Hey Asher.....I try to go to the 'new' page and drop comments and upvotes from time to time. For me, I spend a lot of time creating content,...but I'm also quick and happy to jump at engagements when incited.
I think we've got to do some mentoring program, I'm also always on twitter raising Hive flag and informing when I can.
This blockchain saw its highest level of engagements when the price of the token was high, so I can tie that to that, but now that the price is low and engagements have followed, we need a new motivation to keep noobs here.
I say mentorship program
On-boarding and providing enough info to not overload but get people going has been tough and some sort of mentoring program (guides for those guiding) sounds like a plan.
Engagement does tend to flow with the price, it would be nice to see it driving the price but I think I am asking too much :)
Haha....I guess you are
I consume a lot of content on this platform of various kinds, and while I do really want my account to grow and my music to be seen by others, commenting just for the sake of being seen by others just seems kind of lame.
I get the difference between authentic engagement and spamming, thats not what I mean. I mean if I’m not legitimately compelled to respond to an article/video what have you and feel I either have something to ask, add, words of encouragement or just can’t help but respond authentically, then I don’t usually comment.
Sometimes I’m feeling particularly salesman-y and looking for visibility seems more important to me and I’ll do a couple hors of serial commenting, but if I’m being authentic then even if I really enjoyed an article, sometimes I just give my (nearly worthless) upvote.
Perhaps this has to do with my personality more than anything. I don’t go out of my way to talk to people irl, i don’t have a wide circle of friends and gregarious is not a word anyone would use to describe me. I don’t use traditional social media to tell everyone what i had for lunch or how i’m feeling that minute, just to try to share my art and thats what I do here.
Maybe the system just needs a more efficient way of finding content? I know I would personally be finding a lot more new creators on this platform if there was just one decent search functionality. ( Maybe there is and I don’t know because I can’t search for it. Hah) even if the hive.blog site allowed me to set time paramaters (ie search recent posts) i would probably switch to that frontend instead of peakd despite how much more awesomoe peakd is as a frontend. In my view that is still the biggest bump on our road to hive moondom. What good is so much content if there is no way to find what I want except to hope someone comments on my post or that I find it in the “new” feed or in one of the 1500 communities with the same name...
Sorry that got a little negative, hive fo’ life yo.
Also sorry for the novel but hey, you asked for it ;)
Hey!
Sorry about missing this one, i hate doing that especially when someone has taken the time to write something of substance.
!ENGAGE 50
I really don't want or expect people to comment just for the sake of it, but perhaps the odd short one just to show that you did give the content a read is worth the time.
Appearing on others posts is still the best way to advertise your own account, although curation initiatives are working better than ever I think.
Yeah, fair point. The communities are supposed to have helped with that, but a decent search (eSteem are working on one i think) would help.
Thanks for the comment!
Wow blast from the past, no worries mate. I think when and how much i comment depends a lot on my mood and also the more I engage the more I engage you know? I have been a lot more involved lately for some reason especially in a community for a specific new game (eXode) and that has sort of greased the wheels I think. Also maybe the caffeine...
Im also not a very fast typer so thats probably a part of the story. 🙃
ENGAGEtokens.I feel like there are tons of factors to the rather low engagement on Hive that has continued over from Steem. At the moment though, I think the driving factors are likely non-Hive-related, such as global economic instability and social unrest, negative psychological effects of externally enforced quarantines, etc. The world overall feels like it's in a period of stagnancy and indecision, and that's not exactly a climate that makes people feel excited to join the discussion.
I agree there are a number of factors, internally and externally.
My hope was that lockdown would boost recruits and engagement as people has plenty of time at home. But yeah, maybe they have felt other matters to be more important.
Agreed, I was hoping the same. Seems like many are not feeling particularly confident to go out on a limb and try something new (like Hive.) I'm not really sure, but I think there is little more important than getting continuous new users — and providing them with an experience that leads to retention on the platform.
Yep, and why I'd really like some marketing/advertising to to start happening - Like ads on Brave...
https://peakd.com/hive/@roomservice/proposal-hive-ad-campaign-2020-on-brave-browser
I just want to say that you're overlooking a fundamental fact. People have offline lives as well. And with that comes numerous factors exist that may restrict a person from being able to devote a specified amount of time to online activities. Having an offline daily job is primary for some. Still another issue in some foreign countries is access to reliable internet. This is especially true in South America.
Yes i think all classes of Hive accounts have offline lives, if just seems that the smaller accounts should be engaging more to get themselves seen.
Fair point on reliable internet - perhaps a lot of our smaller accounts have issues here.
Not "perhaps". It's a fact. A cruel one because, as a Terminal Redfish Rally staff member, I see and hear it from them each week. They turn to Hive in an attempt to better their financial situation. They want to engage and grow their accounts, but forces beyond their control work against them. Coupled with their forms of government, they have numerous other issues just trying to live that I nor many others on Hive will never have to face. You can't group all Redfish into one bucket and say what they "should" be doing. This is in no way a criticism of the statements that were made on the post. Just my attempt to explain it a bit why the engagement is low.
Thanks for taking the time to listen. I appreciate it.