The Downvote and Whales Pleasing Syndrome
Hive is so often advertised, mostly inside our ecosystem, as being a blockchain hosting a plethora of social media apps designed and envisioned to fulfill the need for freedom of speech, noncensorship and ultimate ownership over one's content in the current internet era. We sometimes claim that "we're the real WEB3".
Hive is no longer what Steem used to be and I'm more than happy about that, Hive however, from certain angles, is still living in the shadows of Steem. It's over two years since we've forked and aimed at making Hive a better version than Steem and we're still dealing with some of Steem's flaws.
These being whales dictating, or at least trying to shape what quality posts should look like and what is "too much daily posting". I read a post of @daltono a few hours ago, and although in the context of his current situation such whales' influence has been beneficial for him, I'm not entirely in tune with the whales attitude.
I'm not gonna name them, it's irrelevant. The idea is that in the past, probably a few months ago, one whale recommended him that he should not post more than once a day and the other was suggesting that he would forfeit some of the posts rewards when uploading short form content.
I don't know how long were these posts that that whale was pointing at, but what's wrong with short form content? And what's wrong with people curating it? If I remember correctly, when andrarchy confirmed that he's transitioning to Hive, he's done that with a less than one minute read post and that post got to the trending page with hundreds of dollars in posts rewards and no one complained about that.
Where was the quality there? If the post was just a few lines long, thus not falling into a good quality type of post, why did it get so damn curated?
I don't believe in long-form content being the only type of content that should be considered as being of good quality as I don't consider spamming the platform either. One reason, PROBABLY, that Hive is not yet mainstream is that it is mostly oriented towards blogging, but luckily project blank is on the way and this shall have a great impact on past time legacies that we have inherited regarding what content should look like on Hive.
If length=quality, then I should have hit the trending page multiple times by now, but in five years since I've been an active member in here, that has never happened. Hence the logic with long posts resembling quality in any way falls. Not saying that long posts should be disconsidered. @taskmaster4450 and @edicted are delivering insanely insightful long posts.
But, I said it's a story of two whales, so let's jump to the next chapter of this post. Basically, the second whale was suggesting Daltono that he would not post more than once a day. Why? It makes no sense and it's not even healthy for the traffic we need and the exposure that we have to harness to become visible outside of our ecosystem.
If the blockchain allows it(posting multiple times a day), there shouldn't even be a discussion of limiting or trying to limit anyone from posting more than once a day. I agree that posting ten times a day or more is too much, your followers won't even pay any attention to that many posts and you might get unfollowed by becoming too spammy, but as long as your content is digestible and makes sense, I don't see any reason why anyone wouldn't post multiple times a day.
I usually have two of them a day, but I have managed for a while to score even four posts a day. I find it exhausting, though, to do that anymore. I don't even believe any of my followers would read four posts a day from me. At some point in the comments section of the post I mentioned about from Daltono, I remember him mentioning that he didn't want to enter a downvote war and I somehow get him.
What I don't get is why there should be any downvote in the fist place? If you don't like my content, just simply move away and curate others. It's probably over two years since I got an upvote from @appreciator and I used to have a lot of them from that account, but the man has probably had enough with my shit and moved to support other creators. He didn't bothered to comment on what should I change to my posting routine to get his attention and upvotes back.
It's that easy. Even spammers move away when they don't get the attention they think they deserve and expect. Unfortunately "the downvote and whales pleasing syndrome" that was quite bold and narrow during the Steem era of our community has not died after the hardfork.
By no means I'm trying to say that Daltono made a bad move by changing his posting style, he has himself admitted that the two whales commenting on his posts have had a POSITIVE INFLUENCE on him. However, I also do not agree with their take regarding a limit of daily posts and what quality posts should look like as defined by certain entities.
I'm an advocate of common sense, freedom of speech, noncensorship, decentralization, and freedom of expression. My blog is my legacy in that regard. It's a hell of a shitty blog, though, if no whale has ever got to it and pushed any of my posts to the trending page, or trying to make some tweaks to my posting style. Anyway, this post is a hell of a long one from my usual ones... I hope, though, that its good quality will get validated ;) by curators.
Thanks for your attention,
Adrian
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https://twitter.com/AdrianPapava/status/1546584853910622211
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Hey there Ace I agree that the influence of whales in subtle censorship and incentivizing of preferred content is concerning. We are supposed to be the epitome of free speech here but the whales are steering content by upvoting some and not others. It seems rather centralized to me. The struggle for the ideal continues.
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Valid points here.
Hmmm... One option is to convince somebody rich you know to buy a bunch of HIVE and start curating your work. The thing is, you gotta have a rich friend and they are hard to come by. Otherwise there isn't much smaller accounts can do to sway how the whales vote.
I agree with you friend
Sometimes you put in your best and yet nobody is jumping on it,this can be frustrating and sometimes you think within you that is there anything you have not done wright ,I do see some short write-up with heavy vote I keep thinking where are the vote coming from but I realized this is how things works here the beginners or people with less influence always find it difficult to be noticed but it's all a matter of time I believe we shall all get there only time will be different
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It seems the combination of daily persistence, comment and curation, plus accumulating HP and not selling, and decent length plus own photos in a post, all make for a successful combination to attract upvotes over time.
You have raised a good point friend @julianhorack
Even then you're not guaranteed the rewards, that's the whole point. Just having a rich friend buy up 10m HP and throw 5x votes per day your way does not mean the community should be okay with it depending on your own value you bring to the platform and the quality and effort of your content + a bunch of other factors.
That's true. However, it's a situation we're still dealing with on Hive. Circle jerking is something we're probably never gonna get rid of on Hive. It's somehow natural, though, it happens in real life as well, you can't be friends with everyone.
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That's definitely not an easy one to distinguish but downvotes surely help there. There were authors on a literal circlejerk trail even and it's probably still active, not to mention others scratching each others backs just depending on the size of their votes and nothing else.
I was making a joke and know rewards still wouldn’t be guaranteed. I even have made a video about how nothing is guaranteed on Hive. Although sure, the scenario of phoning a wealthy friend for assistance could play out I guess. I was just saying that you have to have a lot of stake to be able to alter other people’s choices who also have a lot of stake. You can’t just walk in and demand respect and money on day one and people who sell off 100% of their rewards aren’t going to be one of the most respected users ever.
I’m actually not against downvotes because without them there would be no way to counteract absurd happenings.
Yes, I have been happy to earn every Hive I have via upvotes for content, compared to buying Hive.
I sense some serious passion behind these words and I like it a lot. You make many good points and definitely are not afraid to say things how they really are.
I feel like as with most things that grow, we will see an evolution on how the biggest curators go about things. I don’t think we can just keep doing this the exact same way it’s going forever, we will have to adapt for many reasons. Influx of users, different apps pushing us to try different content, etc.
What’s kinda sad about my situation is that I was trying hard to support Liketu since it’s a new app, but now I’m keen to the fact that if I post something on there while still posting my daily video, I might start getting targeted for farming rewards or whatever. Even if it’s some dope photos with a decent post with it.
At the same time, it’s pretty nice to not feel pressured to post multiple times a day. As you said, it is exhausting and can really drain my happiness levels. I feel really good just targeting my solo video each day and I’m having a hell of a lot of fun with it.
Keep up your insightful way of thinking bro!
Well, if one post a day is fine, then that's your sweet spot. I wouldn't see any problem in having more than two posts a day. We have different paths in here, thus we need to embrace diversity.
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100%. All should be allowed to join in and create/interact without fear of being turned into a 🪦
Maybe just continue posting on @liketu but don't just post a simple one screenshot/photo post knowing the amount of autovotes you get? It's really not rocket science. If liketu doesn't let you set different beneficiaries so you can forfeit part of those rewards on such short posts then it's probably something the app needs to add at some point because similar to dbuzz you're not going to want to see established content creators start posting low effort posts while taking in all the autovotes under the guise of "supporting a new app". Come on...
https://peakd.com/hive-147010/@daltono/my-anime-violinist-toyota-gr-supra-19-in-akita
You even selfvoted this one, it's kind of hard for me to give you the benefit of the doubt that your intentions weren't to just get your daily dose of rewards no matter what you post or how unfair it may seem to other authors as much as I'd liketu.
I’ve already agreed with you that the post you linked sucked. I got lazy because I was on vacation and was away from my desktop for a week and still wanted to have things to post. It shouldn’t have been rewarded like it was. I’ve changed my methods since then and haven’t self voted for over a month now, while avoiding any low effort posts at all. I’m sure I’m still far from perfect, but I’m at least making an attempt to not be a milker. Btw, I think we’ve had a similar convo already 😅
Also Liketu needs so many updates to make it less annoying to use, so I’m fine continuing to go without it until they get a solid mobile experience.
Well then don't use the "I'd like to support liketu but can't anymore" card when you are aware the fault was your own and not that of the dapp. There's plenty of high effort content on there and you've posted some yourself.
I mean, yeah dunno, feels like this keeps going in circles.
I can't disagree with you on this one...
At the moment of writing my post, I really didn't know what liketu post exactly was Daltono mentioning.
me being here is an evolution of my form of experssion here. i've said stuff that's made people upset, made people mad maybe even and that's okay. I can appreciate that they don't like my content or me or whatever and they've been downvoting me or muting my replies on their posts.
it's still pretty interesting being here so far, sometimes it's even fun. when I don't think about hive being a grind for tokens, it's more fun that way.
whenever I get like 1 hive on a post, I feel so successful, however. it's a dopamine rush that's like in a video game you're really into and you pass a big area or score a bag of good loot. I'm playing subnautica sub zero right now and whenever I put stuff into my hbd savings and/or power up, I feel just like in that game making an underwater deep sea vent sea base.
Downvotes are highly subjective to being used emotionally the way I see it. From what I've heard, seems that project blank won't have such a feature.
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It’s a fact that once you’re in the good book of some whales, you get their upvotes and most are inclined to follow their advice as they want those big votes keep coming in…
Being big here has immense power, that’s just a fact.
A good comments friend I agree with you
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I'm not in that position and probably never will. I do have whales upvoting my content but nothing unordinary. Most of my posts are under $10 in rewards.
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I would also advise that 1 post a day is a good target.
But there are also many exceptions.
I could probably post 3 or 4 times a day if this was a full time job. RE: Taskmaster.
But even then there are massive diminishing returns in posting more than once.
I don't disagree with anything you've said.
People shouldn't have to worry about being chain downvoted because they posted five times in a day. That's very toxic and stressful and counterproductive.
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It sure is but there are a group here that do actively plan on voting out based on number of posts and sound very vindictive.
Should they worry about getting chain autovoted posting 5 times per day, no matter what the level of effort or quality was in each of those 5 posts?
Good point. Auto voter is a Hive feature that I've been against since the Steem era.
Hard to please anyone, though...
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It's just a feature that can't be disabled, same like trying to limit how many times you post. Answer to most of those things are unfortunately downvotes but they have to be used well.
All of that involved a lot of common sense.
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Great perspective! I think it's based on personal preferences and there's no clear rule that applies to all. Some prefer short form content while others prefer the long form content, quality exist in both.
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Another good comments you are very correct friend ,some people get tired of too many content and prefer the short and informative post both long and short only need a thus key words (QUALITY)
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I'm for both, not just long or short form content. I believe both can co-exist.
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That downvoter is one thing that might impede the discussion of political things, Those with significant Hive Power may otherwise make it close to censoring the content to one set of thought/ideologies. In twitter, it is the owner of Twitter who censors it if it does not fit to their ideologies. In Hive that is not possible. But those groups who have better Hive Power might censor the other group they feel opposite to their set of ideologies.
While a feature like Downvote is indeed needed to filter out the nonsense and low-quality post, and prevent them to feature on the trending page, it also equally restrict the potential of Hive being a more fluid platform like Twitter. So the downvote feature needs more adjustment to ensure that this should not otherwise become a means to censor others.
Makes sense. BUT when you get downvoted you're not actually censored, it's just that some of rewards, or all of them are removed by large stake holders.
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My hope is that in the future Hive will be an "ecosystem" blockchain with the blogging a secondary feature. To me that's where HIve's greatest potential lies.
I doubt it will ever happen.
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Seriously speaking thus post has spoken my mind and it has done justice to what gas been bordering my mind this post is really for me and I have to read over and over again am sure you have spoken the mind of money thanks so much friend @acesontop
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Glad you liked it.
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You miss one critical thing in your assessment, this is a shared reward pool with everyone and that people with stake have more influence as they earned it (either through rewards or buying it).
You say people should post as much as they want and no one should ever downvote, what happens when haejin2 shows up and starts posting 11 times a day and self voting with 1.5M HP with all his voting power? Should those who put in effort suffer with fewer rewards as a result?
What you do in the reward pool effects everyone.
Without downvotes we would turn into whaleshares where stake holders will post "stake preservation posts" 11 times a day and self vote 100% to just maintain their stake.
It isn't as simple as "if you don't like it don't vote it".
There are also many situations where many people will vote up crappy content just to keep it in in the family. Just look at blurt where it only takes 3 votes to get to trending or Steemit which is flooded with a handful of people making thousands of dollars per post and dominating trending. You can't downvote on Blurt and Steemit downvotes just don't happen anymore.
By your words, I should be able to post 11 memes a day, and upvote them 100% and do nothing else. What gives you the right to convince me otherwise? If I do it, why doesn't everyone else?
Good point. What happens when a group of friends starts posting one post a day and all they do is keep on upvoting each other? It's the same fight over the rewards pool imo.
Word on that. I've underlined my take in this regard just above.
I guess common sense stops us from doing that... At least that's my case. I know that is hard to keep the platform perfectly clean, but I was not suggesting in any way through my post that anyone should post 10 times a day.
I was referring to a case where a user is putting out two-three posts a day and imo that's not much. I have such days when I post three times a day, but that doesn't mean all of those posts are curated equally or that I'm spamming anyway.
Fun fact: *if it wasn't for haejin and his votes this post would have probably not hit the trending page and you wouldn't read it ;). What's even funnier is that newsflash had to come and rebalance the rewards on it :)
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I barely read a post. Sometimes. Your headline attached me
I do see what you mean
!BBH
Because this is such an awesome post, here is a BBH Tip for you.
. Keep up the fantastic work
Plenty of short form content occurs here on a regular basis. Probably far more than long form, by far, and it's never discouraged. It's actually encouraged and being rewarded on a regular basis (provided people actually have stake and actually vote).
So strange to me so many sell their HP then can't figure out why nobody is voting or supporting content. Then of course when things go wrong, it's the one's who didn't sell out getting the blame?
You're looking at this short form content right now, as you read this. It happens in the comment section, daily. More folks here need to recognize the fact we're posting here in the comments as well and I've personally given people whole shiny quarters just for laughing and joking around with me. Sometimes they get the whole shebang if the comment or thread was something that stood out in my mind.
I personally don't mind posting once per week. My posts haven't been overly wordy lately but the art seen within takes several hours to produce and I don't really feel like rushing it. I'm happy with this approach. Might splurge and do two in one week but that would be pushing it. Nobody told me I needed to be like this. It's a personal choice and I feel it's a wise business move.
Besides, there are only so many votes to go around. Even with nearly 80k HP, I can't afford to upvote one individual four times in one day. Maybe I could give them four 25% votes but that's really just one vote. Plus as a consumer, where am I going to find the time to focus on one human that much, when there are thousands more I might be interested in that day all vying and sometimes even desperate for attention due to the serious lack of actual consumers on this platform. Supportive consumers with votes worth something is an even smaller crowd. Whales is an even smaller crowd so posting just to please those individuals and nobody else is just a fancy way of shooting yourself in the foot.
As for downvotes, using Blurt as an example. If one screws up there they can get the boot permanently with no second chances. When they see behavior they don't approve of they also practice shunning where they'll smear a member, making it 'uncool' to vote for that individual, which is a form of psychological torture commonly seen in cults. With no downvote they only have two options. Yes or no. Not voting is the downvote on a platform without downvotes.
Here we have Yes, Maybe/Not Interested, or No. In my mind that is far more fair and balanced. Yes and maybe/not interested is used far more often than No.
For the most part I'd say the downvotes act more like a deterrent. People know not to do dumb shit because there could be consequences, just like in life.
P.S. Looks like I've been muted LOL! "Downvoted"? Erased? Should I be concerned?
I agree 100%.
I was having you on mute, true... I don't know if it was accidental or on purpose, I can't remember interacting with you until now.
Luckily I could read your comment via the leofinance interface. I just followed you now. We'll probably keep in touch.
I appreciate your time dedicated for this comment, although I don't agree entirely with your view.
Long story short, my post was aiming at the type of account who's somehow changing his profile(posting style, type of content, daily posts count, etc) just to please some whales.
I'm not in that category and never will be.
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Didn't take the mute personally. Can't remember talking to you either. Doesn't matter.
But is he truly doing it just to please people. Or did those people come and offer him some advice, he took it, then noticed things improved?
Would it have been different in your eyes if someone with less stake offered the same advice? It wasn't bad advice.
I remember approaching @daltano awhile back and offering some advice. He might remember that. But I can't remember what it was about exactly.
And recently (wasn't the first time) a new member approached me with a lot of questions and I did my best to explain things how I see it. I don't think if they followed my guidance they'd be doing it just to please me and really all I wanted to do was help as best I could.
Should those of us with stake and experience stand back?
I think there are more good intentions involved when folks approach others than bad intentions.
And if you don't agree with some of the things I said, I'm fine with that. If we were all the same, that would be kind of creepy.
That's what the system is trying to make us.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Ignore it. I'm a bit of conspiracy theorist sometimes.
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LOL that's fine. I can be one as well.
What the world would be like without these types of people?
Just a bunch of blind believers walking in line through life.
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Some into conspiracies act like blind believers as well. I think it boils down to just people being people. Some can see, some can't. Some only believe they can see because someone else told them what to look at and how to see it. Happens with all walks of life.
But this post isn't about that. If you're not interested in talking about that stuff, fine. But I'm always up for exchanging ideas.
That comment I told you to ignore had nothing to do with the post or your comment. Just a side comment.
I agree, exchanging idea can enlarge horizons and that's what I am for.
Otherwise I wouldn't bother share all sort of personal thoughts on my blog. I learned a lot through this experience.
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I think it's a sign of healthy and thriving populace when folks don't agree on how everything should go down.
I see some doom and gloom stemming from this post in the comments, which is something I don't consider to be too productive.
In some ways this post comes across as 'those finding success did it by kissing ass and trying to be one of the herd' but that is never a good approach. That's one of the easiest ways to fail here. One most certainly needs to be themselves and stand out on their own.
Daltano didn't need to follow that advice. He made the choice to. And in some ways, how this post comes across, it makes him look like a little bitch. I don't know him too well but one thing I do know is he's not someone's bitch. He's his own man and does his own thing.
What I've been doing for close to five years.
I had no intention of making him look that way. I just shared my view on his post and what he reflected on.
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I believe you when you say you had good intentions and it was coming from a good place.
I'll see you around.
See you. Need to get back to gym stuff now. Thanks for stopping by.
Yeah I gotta get back to hookers and blow.
Just kidding.
Just don't film yourself like Hunter did :)
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One thing I forgot to mention and maybe I'll tag @daltono as well.
I'm quite established here and with that comes a lot of responsibility. Pissing off a few stakeholders is really the least of your worries.
If I was to post constantly, with the amount of support I've gathered over the years, it would piss off a lot of members who are either still struggling to get noticed, or have been struggling the entire time, or those who just can't stand it when others do good.
Over the years maybe you've noticed a lot of complaints about who earns what and how. Even you're expressing displeasure, claiming posts must be long, basically taking a dump on those who CHOOSE to take the long form approach because that's what they want to do and some people like it, claiming they're only being that way to impress a small group of stakeholders, which isn't true, at all. People truly want to create those kind of posts and they truly hope people enjoy them, regardless of how much is in the wallet.
Once you've gathered a firm support base, majority of the complaints and flak received whether directly or indirectly actually comes from members who view themselves as 'small'.
Part of the reason I post a lot less these days is because I don't want to alienate those members who would choose to complain about someone attempting to work hard and do well. It's really common to see those complaints. Far more common than seeing someone getting downvoted. Part of the reason people get downvoted for things like 'milking' or 'farming' stems from those complaints I'm talking about. And if I started slacking it would be WW3. "Why does he earn so much for doing so little when I've sat here for hours writing 2000 words and get nothing" would be the common complaint. So I make damn sure to be consistent and also make damn sure I don't dip into the pool to grab some easy rewards, because people don't like seeing that and never have.
I personally know quite a few who have literally quit Steem(it was back then when it happened) over frustrations regarding the payouts they were getting which we are insignificant in comparison to what "the established" were cashing in. In this post here entitled The Ultimate Guide To What NOT TO DO On Hive one thing I was advising newbies on Hive was to never compare themselves with others.
It's true. Comparing is not wise. Many don't see the years of grinding it took to reach those levels. I know I personally don't take it for granted. I like to be cautious, don't want to annoy people, but at the same time I truly enjoy producing some long posts. That's just me being me. People do enjoy it and I enjoy their company; the amount of engagement on my posts proves people from all walks of life enjoy that approach.
I don't think people should expect to make massive amounts posting short form. I don't have anything against short and sweet posts either. I'll often vote for some. It takes all types to build up a community. We just need to be careful with how much we dip into that pool. I respect that fact. I could spend five minutes posting a new character I've been working on for several days and say nothing. Those auto votes would roll in and I'd feel bad for not saying more. I also don't want to lose that support as it took a lot of years to get there. A very delicate balancing act.
What this platform truly needs though is a focus placed on consumers and consumer perks. I wrote about it here:
https://peakd.com/life/@nonameslefttouse/one-of-those-hive-stories
People onboarding supportive consumers who can literally support content for 'free' would solve so many issues we face here.
Although there was some fear of getting nuked forever, I mainly made this change because I enjoy making videos a lot more than I do writing blogs. If you compare my previous 4 years of work versus this past month or so, I definitely feel like it shows that I’m much more excited about what I'm doing now and am actually able to provide something of importance for some people. I honestly wouldn’t have pushed myself to make videos everyday like this if I hadn’t been warned of over-posting low effort work. So I’m grateful that happened actually.
The world can be mysterious like that. What feels like a negative converts itself into a huge positive. Video production takes time and effort as well; a lot focus. All that previous effort wasn't for nothing either because you've built a following there to see your new work.
If you look at some of my oldest work including both the art and writing, compared to my recent stuff, I think it's safe to say there's a huge improvement. Was a gradual process though. I don't think I'd have got far had I kept it the same.
Sometimes a guy just needs a good kick in the butt. Those downvotes though are never supposed to be permanent. Some folks really screw themselves and start burning bridges or harassing members, and that does nothing to deescalate. They'll leave that part out though when going off on everyone talking about how the platform won't survive now that they've been downvoted...
I remember awhile back being auto downvoted and simply putting way more effort into my work just to make the one downvoting look foolish. People would comment, "Why are you being downvoted?" LOL!
From ➖➡️➕ is a real thing. I believe in that so much that I blabbered about it for 13 minutes. I swear editing videos is so damn satisfying. Here lately I’ve been really taking my time and adding in every little thing that I think can make it better. Making custom designs in photoshop so that I can have it show on the screen for like two seconds. I’ve downloaded so many GIFs from GIPHY too, I feel they really add extra character to the things that I say.
I definitely remember seeing you posting back when I first started in late 2017 & I of course see improvement. You still manage to be you still though & consistency like that just ain’t easy.
The characters that have whined and tried to continue their antics after their first massive downvotes are most likely mentally ill. It’s sad that we lose some users like that, but I think it’s even worse to have those terrible users who could start an insane cult with their potential following. Plus I’m sure many still lurk with new, less public profiles… they just can’t resist da Hive.
I’m not afraid to admit that I have fucked up over and over in my life. I learn lessons on my own usually and the moments when others take the time to give me any advice at all, I try my best to soak that stuff up and boost my overall stats to a higher number thanks to the insight that I gained.
It's true some are quite disturbed. Just had my name dragged through the mud for nearly half the year just for trying to talk to one on a day he was melting down. I'd not seen such madness firsthand before, though I knew it existed.
I'm following you now. I like this attitude. I remember you from back in the day. Now here you are almost 80 rep. The daily grind for me stopped years ago though. I'd be up there as well but didn't have the energy anymore. I like what I'm doing now. Just one post per week, if that. No rush. No pressure. My life needed that more but there could come a time I become a workaholic again, which isn't a bad thing if it's leading somewhere.
I'll see you around dude.
I remember seeing that and avoided commenting because I didn’t think it would do anything but add to the uneeded hostility.
Thanks for the follow. I was already following, but I added you to my PeakD Favorites list so I don’t miss your posts. My regular feed is so busy and I don’t check it much.
As long as you’re feeling good about what you’re doing, then you’re succeeding. I consider this stuff one of my main objectives every single day. If it weren’t for this place I’d still be working the old job I had that I hated so much. I wouldn’t have had the courage to finally quit without the opportunity that Hive has offered.
Indeed will see you around. I’ll be sure to visit your posts more frequently.
It's best to avoid but at the same time one can't talk someone down from that ledge if they don't try. Dude was seeing red with everything said though and that was a wildfire out of control burning everyone. Hopefully doesn't happen again. People just need to chill. Take a step back and recalibrate sometimes.
I really hope this works out for you. No guarantees ever so ditching that job was a bold move for sure. I've done that before in life a few times though and I'm still alive.
And if you miss my posts dude it's no problem. Part of this gig is knowing in advance most will walk past. It's kind of like busking in a sense.
I was reading your entire comment with impressive seriousness on my part until I got to the last line where you say you were muted, LOOL, I laughed so hard.
But I agree with you, there is a lot to see and consume here, I love to read, and I rarely comment but I do leave my vote buuut focusing on one person for a whole day I couldn't do it, why settle for just one drop when I can have the ocean.
I have rarely downvoted someone, there are months that I post regularly so as there are months where I don't post at all but I'm voting, what I don't like I just look the other way and the problem is over. Like my content there are probably people who don't like it but I'm not pleasing anyone either
I laughed pretty hard as well when I noticed. On Peakd once you hit send you can see your message but if you're muted it just goes, poof. Gone. Still accessible though so all was not lost.
It is very difficult to keep up with everyone and everything. I don't use automated votes so when people do see my vote that means I was there at that exact time.
I'll use downvotes as a last resort. Very rarely do I get involved in those disputes by using downvotes. I prefer to use words and talk things out. What's interesting is regardless of what you say or how you say it, telling something like an art fraud or scammer to stop being like that often doesn't lead to them stopping, but the downvotes seem to work. Same with harassment and trolls. Could tell someone for four days to leave you alone but they just keep coming back. A few downvotes and they suddenly back off. Then one can live in peace again. Funny how that works. But it doesn't always work. Sometimes the downvotes only lead to more harassment; never ending. Some people are crazy I guess.
I imagined you taking the time to write all that, spending a few minutes of your life that won't come back and then realizing it late "MUTED" LOOOL
The same for me, when ppl see a vote it is because I was there at that moment and read or see it
Hahahaha, OMG I've been using it all wrong (or not using it at all)
That's another issue with leaving comments here sometimes. Give someone a vote, which is a nice gesture, similar to a tip. Spend time writing a comment. They either ignore it and leave no response, which is okay sometimes but other times can be rude. Or they say, "Thanks for commenting." Which would be like striking up a conversation with a stranger and all they do is say, "Thanks for talking."
I personally think these comment sections can be more important than the actual posts at times. I always try to respond and even feel bad when I miss a comment. It's like not answering the door yet they know you're home. Which is why I stress the importance of this short form section and encourage rewarding it. Especially if that's what people want. And it can be fun. For instance I can say, "Cabinet," and you're instantly reminded of a few of our conversations LOL!
I have been left without answers, sometimes when I don't know what to answer mostly bc i don't understand something, I sincerely appreciate to the ppl for taken the time to stop by
HAHAHAHAHAHA everytime I think about you or i see u over there in my mind is like "that's the cabinet right there" "oh yes, the cabinet" I CAN'T HELP MYSELF !!!!!! and the fact that I actually assemble a cabinet after that !!!!!!!!! hahahahaha
There I am building cabinets again... LOL!
I think that's a permanent piece of furniture now. Built right into the floor. And nobody knows what the hell we're talking about but it's hilarious!
I hope you have a good evening.
With your comments of course my evening got better!!
Same for you, friend :)
Good insights there, many thanks, upvoted lol.
The whole value of most internet sites is based on traffic.
There are a few that need to get a life, but at the same time it is their stake and they have the most to gain or lose, so they are entitled to bad decisions.
We should encourage engagement, posting and traffic, I just try to ignore them, and that's about the best one can do.
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Your view is not that common among the commenters.
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Many view it from the social aspect not the DPOS aspect.
I'd rather the whales left people alone except in cases of clear abuse, but I also respect DPOS.
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I agree with most of your sentiments and I don't have anything against the people who make tons of posts a day. It's their choice and I would never downvote people for just that reason alone (I rarely downvote unless it's those scammers). People should just be who they want to be.
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Brooo. Only if a 1000-word count made my shitpost a good post. xD xD xD
I can always increase the length of my shitty posts using AI tools. It's that easy and doubters will never even know. So the whole argument of posting long-form content to justify big upvotes seems irrelevant to me.
Great point here, AI writing is a real thing that we already have to deal with. Most wouldn't even be able to realize that something was written by AI. It's only going to become more common in the future.
Yes. We have to embrace it rather than criticize or ignore it. It will only help creators do better work. And maybe things that were not even possible before.
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Exactly my point.
I believe that at some point AI will become a content creation machine.
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We are already there bro: https://renaissancerachel.com/best-ai-writing-tools/
Try them yourself and you will be blown away.
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I guess you got someone's attention with this post. I always feel that, sometimes, it is not what you know, but who you know - whether it is Steem, Hive or in real life.
true.
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How can that be compared to a former ex steemit employee making one post after months of not posting to someone consistently and daily posting many times short form content? I seriously feel like most of you purposely miss out on major details just to fit your narrative.
It's what he said that mattered? Quitting Steemit, not having a history of farming and people wanting the post to trending. The intention was not to farm post rewards, same can't be said for those posting consistently.
There's no way to limit it, it's been tried in the past where votes on the same accounts started giving diminishing returns on your vp after the 3rd or 4th post but easily avoidable with alt accounts much like a lot of other things on Hive when there's no verification.
Same as posting 10 times per day, if you post 4+ then your followers may not always digest it, it's quite easy to see too when you stop receiving engagement on your 3-4 daily posts. Again it's the intention that matters, if you're consistently posting 3-4 posts per day, some having more effort while others not, it's not going to matter to autovoters and supporters, they consume no content, they just vote hence it starts to look like you're just farming them or often times even your own selfvote.
I know what post and author you're talking about and I stand by my words, I don't think asking people to limit their posting to once per day is the right decision, people should post as much as they want but they need to be fair to themselves and the platform with how much of the reward pool they are taking and not just having the monthly top earners chart dangling in front of their eyes trying to get there this way. @taskmaster4450 is quite a beast but even he knows that if he were to start making low effort posts + not receiving views or engagement on them he'd quickly start receiving some downvotes because people wouldn't think it's fair that he'd continue raking in top earner rewards continuously if the clout isn't there anymore. Same goes for other top authors such as @tarazkp, etc.
It's almost always the intention that matters, whether the author himself intends to or not, over time others are going to judge for themselves what they think is going on with such activity.
If I suddenly started posting 3-4 times per day, selfvoting some of them, but accepting the autovotes I do get on all and half of those posts where just a picture with a few words and a footer or a screenshot of whatever I'm playing at the time I'd honestly be disappointed if others wouldn't start downvoting me. That's our way to balance the reward pool out and keep bad actors away from the honey, such as haejin, etc. Not necessarily just him, though, anyone can become a bad actor, maximizer or abuser at any time so we need the downvotes for those times.
That said I'm not saying everyone downvoting is doing it correctly neither, some do use it as a weapon or get something out of seeing post rewards go to 0 which I'm personally not a fan of. At that point in time we start to get into more technical and reward sacrificing aspects of Hive where each onlooker has the choice to attempt to counter the excessive downvote with their vote, knowing they're going to receive way less returns on curation rewards from that or even get the bad actor downvoter on your tail. Luckily there have not been a lot of retaliation downvotes and things like that since the Steem days so I'd say we're in quite peaceful times these days compareed.
Yet people still find the time to complain about some small downvotes and how that affects them and how it's censorship, etc. It's just baffling and tiresome at this point.
Since you're ad advocate of common sense, would it not make sense for authors who know they get autovotes or good votes no matter what they post to forfeit some of the rewards on posts they know they've not spent a lot of time or effort on? Especially if they post every day multiple times per day and earn post rewards consistently? Or should everyone just feel entitled to get as much from the reward pool as possible once they've "made it", a.k.a. gotten themselves enough autovotes to just farm the rest of hive inflation from now on not giving a shit about fair rewards for other users, etc, and if someone dares to downvote at any point in time they just lose it and start shitting on the platform and how it's centralized, full of censorship, etc, etc, after having made more rewards they would ever make on any other platform ten lifetimes over?
This isn't about daltono of course, but we've seen what happens to some people like worldtravelpro who were abusing autovotes in forever, content getting farmier and farmier until one day people noticed not only was he doing low quality shitpost farming but also reposting which lead to consistent downvotes and him losing his mind over it.
Don't lose your mind over downvotes, don't lose your mind over autovotes. Don't take post rewards, nor curation rewards for granted and you'll be fine. If you're unfairly being targeted or harrassed with downvotes I'm sure others will step up and start countering them at some point, no need to start throwing a fit over it happening a few times.
I was mentioning that to put into perspective the concept of long=quality=worth curating.
The same should be applied to Daltono and many others.
I agree 100% on this one. It's pretty much what I've been trying to underline with this post.
I have not encouraged anyone to do that through this post. Here you have my exact words: I agree that posting ten times a day or more is too much, your followers won't even pay any attention to that many posts.
Nope. You've basically answered by your own on this one when you wrote: "It's what he said that mattered".
I can not disagree on this one, I do believe that is an aspect that's hard to control.
It's what I've been doing for close to five years. I have never held myself from expressing my thoughts freely on this platform. When I will no longer be able to do that I will instantly make this account a dead one. It's that simple.
I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic. Don't forget to downvote it if you consider it not worth the rewards. Newsflash has already done his share. I guess it wasn't long enough to be worth $80 of rewards :)).
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The andrarchy one is unique, if it's the one I'm thinking of when he quit steemit. Should he maybe have declined rewards or forfeited them to the DHF? Maybe but it's such a small issue there considering the things that were happening and most likely not in his head at all. That's why it's such a bad example to compare as well. Again, it's the intention, I don't disagree that if daltono suddenly said something with just as big of an impact on the platform/ecosystem that it shouldn't get rewarded, it's more about the past history combined with other actions that define an author and post and if the rewards are justified. These things are of course very subjective but it's not completely controversial when it comes to some of the posts he was producing and the rewards they were receiving.
Anyway, I'm all for discussing these things and wasn't the one to mass downvote him, some users feel the need to downvote more often to "teach people a lesson" or "make up for overrewarded low effort posts that have already paid out" but I feel like downvotes don't need more drama rather be used sparingly and effectively to lower the rewards to what you feel the post should have gotten same way as when you upvote. That's the only way I see this platform scaling long-term, say if the price of Hive were to go to the hundreds I don't think it's going to be a good look to have taskmaster earning 500k per week while some other users are making 5$ once they get past the reward threshold. Downvotes will assist on keeping the rewards relatively realistic while at the same time distributing them to the rest of users who aren't getting downvoted due to overrewards.
Even we at @ocd when the price pumped to 2-3$ noticed that our votes started getting too big so a percentage of the daily voting power started to be used towards hbdstabilizer because there were not more new underrewarded users just cause the price spiked nor where we curating more actively just cause of that but to give people realistic rewards we had to lower the upvotes.
Anyway, didn't mean to come off to strong on you on this post but it's just something that I've had to discuss many times and has taken a lot of my time in the past, I just feel like some points need to be a fact at this point such as censorship and abiding by what whales want. I've plenty of times countered some of the downvotes by the same user in question because I felt that yes we get it this authors posts were overrewarded but that doesn't mean you should aim to zero'ing the rewards that consistently and for that long cause it's not going to have a positive effect on the platform that way.
You haven't. I'm not as stiff as I sometimes look.
It was fine where it was considering the length and effort in my view, you'll probably get some rewards in the comment section as well, but it got some bigger votes after last time I checked so I feel like it got a bit overrewarded now.
Because very few do curate, they use autovoters and are really not interested in what people post, only what they earn in curation.
Perhaps those whales were simply suggesting theit support may end if the quality didnt improve. They are the customers in this case after all.
I notice recently said user telling Hive that this was how he made his living. All too often on Hive, some people begin to feel like they can do as they like and show aspects of arrogance and entitlement.
Its a Proof of Stake system, we accept that by our presence.
I perfectly understand what you meant in your post, there are things that can be interpreted in other ways but I think that people who reach that point want to find some kind of reason in their actions.
The freespeech is much under discussion here, one thing is that you want to express yourself and quite another is that some people are freely spreading hxte at their convenience using their "because it seems to me... or I consider that..." card
And it is totally understandable a point where perhaps one can observe that there are many people expressing the same thing, then you enter into self-awareness and think maybe it is me who is doing things wrong, but that it is always the same person over and over again wanting that please her/him or she/he seems to have a personal problem with you specifically, and you are like ... is everything okay at home, friend????
On many occasions I prefer to remain silent because generating some kind of conflict is not my style, I try to remain constant in what I know
I'm not generating conflict either, but I am nevertheless expressing myself free as I was born and taught to.
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Thanks for sharing this post I love your honesty 👊🏾
I love the comments 👀
Great.
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