Updating the Engagement project for POB - 50 engagers gets upvotes instead of 25 from now on.

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Good morning to everyone , hope you are doing good .

Today it is not an analysis post , it is more of a update for the engagement project.

POB

POB activity is growing day by day , the number of posts and comments made from that particular front-end is increasing .

So I thought of encouraging people more by upvoting not 25 users who engaged but 50 users .

Why the change?

These are the reasons

  1. There are many users who are leaving 5-6 quality comments everyday whom I want to support and recognize . I want to tell them that each and every quality comments matter .
  2. This might spur more engagement as 50th position gets less upvote than 49th . So the 50th person who gets good amount of upvotes for 2-3 days might put more effort to increase engagement .

One of the main reason apart from above 2 is - @amr008.pob holds a lot of POB right now compared to most other users on POB .

image.png

We even crossed @pob-fund and are sitting at 6th position .

Right now the 100% upvote is worth 34 POB which is like 50 HIVE ( 25 HIVE for author ) .

Since POB is still in early stages we should diversify the distribution . It shouldn't be in the hands of few people . That doesn't mean we just give it away to everyone who doesn't put the efforts , let's distribute to those users who are putting efforts and contributing to the POB ecosystem .

Changes

  1. Not only the 25 to 50 users change , I just updated the script to make sure the quality comments gets picked up most and the upvotes distributes properly based on the effort .
  2. This doesn't mean those who are putting more efforts won't get more upvotes , they will . At the end of the day , it all depends on the final "quality" value that I calculate . ( I will explain this below)
  3. I might reduce or increase the number of users for POB in coming days based on certain analysis .

Today's upvotes for POB and explanation

pob.png

Here is the full details of today's upvotes. Let me explain certain things a bit .

  1. Sumlen - Total characters types by user ( this doesn't include "URLs" , "Posted via proofofbrain" it is automatically removed by the script and then the characters are counted)

  2. CC - Comment count

  3. Parent_c - Number of authors you talked to

  4. Unique words - Number of unique words used ( all comments of users are considered here)

  5. Unique comments - Number of unique comments made by the user

  6. Similar comments - Number of similar comments made by the user .

    • Note: These are the steps taken to check for similarity
      1. Your first comment of the day is picked and checked with all other comments of yours . If the first comment matches 65% with any other comment , then it is considered similar .
      2. If your first comment doesn't match with any other , then it is considered unique .
        • How did I arrive at 65% for similarity = analysis of various comments .
        • Note that I don't use any third party API for this , I have written all the codes to check this myself .
  7. Ratio similar - Number of similar comments / Number of Unique comments . The higher the number this is - the less the quality value .

  8. Avg_length_c - Average length of comments by user .

All these 8 factors have various weight assigned to them which I cannot make public because users can game the system "easily" if I do it .

Now all these values are multiplied by "weights" that I have assigned to come up with the "Quality" value which determines your upvote value .

Everyday 100% upvote is divided among all these users based on their "Quality" value .

Just know that these are positives and negatives

Positives

  1. Sumlen
  2. CC
  3. Parent C
  4. Unique words
  5. Unique comments

Negatives

  1. Similar comments
  2. Ratio Similar

Neutral

  1. Average Length Comment .

Positives - You have to work on increasing these scores . The higher they are , the better your quality value is .

Negatives - You have to work on decreasing these scores . The higher they are , the less your quality value will be . It is assigned negative value in the script .

Average Length comment - This can be both positive and negative . I have set a threshold , if it is above that threshold then it is taken as positive value . If it is below that threshold , it is taken as negative value .

Example of myself

If you check my name in the list , I am ranked at 28th . ( It says 27 because it starts with 0 ). I have made 14 comments , talked to 12 authors but still 28th ?

A lot of people have done just 3-4 comments and are above me ? Yes this is because of the similar comments , I have made 3 similar comments :(( Sorry lol + the average length is not great too . That's the reason the script punished me and put me down at 28th rank .

It is the total effort made that is taken into consideration

Now this is the last thing I want to clearly specify . Sometimes you might see a @amr008.pob upvote of say 10 POB on a comment which says " Wow this provided me so much insight , thanks" and you might think , that's not fair at all .

But just know that the upvote is caluclated based on all the other comments the user has made . The script just picks a random comment to upvote .

So in this particular example , the user would have made 10 quality comments elsewhere .

I will keep improving the script to make sure the best quality comments are upvoted more and stays at the top .


That's it from me today :) Feel free to provide your feedback here in the comment section . Let us keep that engaging going .


Regards,
MR.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta



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71 comments
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I was building a similar function for @exxp back when we still had a 1m SP delegation from Steemit. Mainly to determine which of the guest accounts who signed up with email / social media profile we should gift free accounts to.

I think another good variable to have is the diversity of users people comment in response to. Quality is of course important, but also engaging with different people and not only the same users over and over is good for platform growth and user experience. Especially when quality is still a requirement so that users actually have to take the time reading a post in order to make a thought-full reply to it. Thus, this helps incentivize users not only to write thoughtful comments, but also to look for and connect with new users making interesting content.

Imo, incentives should be best aligned with a growth strategy. So it should correlate with behaviours that promote growth. Such as looking for and engaging with new people (also helps improve user retention when new users are more likely to receive a thoughtful comments this way).

Thanks for running this project and curaying engagement:).


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Hey @fredrikaa . Thank you for the feedback :) Really appreciate it .

I think another good variable to have is the diversity of users people comment in response to.

With respect to this , yeah as I mentioned in the post - parent_c column tells how many different authors they have talked to ( meaning how many different parent_authors posts/comments did they comment on ).

That particular factor holds a lot of weight while calculating the overall upvote value .

Imo, incentives should be best aligned with a growth strategy. So it should correlate with behaviours that promote growth. Such as looking for and engaging with new people (also helps improve user retention when new users are more likely to receive a thoughtful comments this way).

I agree with you totally on this one and share the same vision as you .

Thanks for running this project and curaying engagement:).

Most welcome :) Just doing my part here.

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Oh, I totally missed that😅. Read all the details about how quality and comment diversity / uniqueness was checked. Sounds good:).

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Thanks @fredrikaa and I am always open for suggestions , if you have anything on mind which will improve the curation or any criticism I am all ears .

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This seems to be a really good development, because many a times I have observed that same set of users get voted, which is of course good as they are creating the engagement but there are a few who try to engage but are left out. I guess by increasing the number of votes, this would solve the problem of inclusion of the new engagers as well.
However, I am not sure if this will have any positive impact on the ROI for the investors as the number of upvotes will be more now ?


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If you are delegating away to the POB account, I don't think it will have any impact on your return because it is a linear reward curve. So in total, its still 10 full upvotes per day.

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You are right .

I am not increasing the upvote percentage per day per se , I am just distributing the same to more users.

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Yes , I am really happy by the increase in number , this increase itself is enough to motivate people who engage but give up as they do not get any rewards.


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I am happy if there is an increase because of this .

but give up as they do not get any rewards.

This is the main reason I extended it to 50 . Keep engaging , I will try to make sure I do my best to reward quality comments even if I have to change the existing rules .

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Well yeah the top 25 seemed to be very consistent actually , they were engaging well with others .

My aim is to distribute POB to wide range of users so I have increased from 25 to 50 .

However, I am not sure if this will have any positive impact on the ROI for the investors as the number of upvotes will be more now ?

When you say investors , you mean delegators ?

Either way , no the curation reward will remain the same right ? So there won't be any change in the ROI .

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I think this is a good change for the POB engagement side but I guess LEO still requires more delegations before you can make the same changes.

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Ah yes exactly . I actually looked into LEO too but the upvote value is way too low , it isn't worth it .

The account is growing though day by day so hopefully in future I can extend it to 35-40 users .

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Hopefully because we get quite a bit of engagement daily and it would make people put in a little more effort if they saw the LEO coming in.

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Firstly I am very happy to see my name on this list .

Secondly I really appreciate how you have decided to increase the number from 25 to 50 for now as this has open window for more user to get motivated and interact.

I see how hardwork you are doing in selecting user and giving scores to them and on top of that i see you said that you don't use any existing script but you have coded on of your own to do the job.

Thank you and keep it up , I will definitely be trying to increase my score.


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Firstly I am very happy to see my name on this list .

I am happy you got rewarded . I see you here and there on POB which means you are active .

I see how hardwork you are doing in selecting user and giving scores to them and on top of that i see you said that you don't use any existing script but you have coded on of your own to do the job.

Yeah all the existing scripts has some or other bugs in them . It is better to create our own .

Thank you and keep it up , I will definitely be trying to increase my score.

Glad to hear that kamran :) Good luck .

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Fantastic, so there would be more engagers on the platform now, who would try and comment on the posts. However, we should ensure that spammers are not taking away a chunk of the vote value that you have built.


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However, we should ensure that spammers are not taking away a chunk of the vote value that you have built.

I will try my best to keep them away .

If you see any , please inform me I will make sure they won't receive the upvotes .

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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That is awesome. I hope you find some good people to upvote. My commenting has been a little off lately because the posts just haven't been there like they were a month or so ago. I am seeing the same people as usual, but new stuff has seemed to fall off in the past couple of weeks. Quality new stuff anyway.

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Totally agree with you .

But the good news is , many like taskmaster have started using pob tag on their posts so you can respond to their post using pob front-end but that would mean we have to sacrifice some LEO rewards due to non-native tax .

It is a tricky situation for sure lol

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I just use the Leo front end for everything unless I am home and on the Ecency app. I don't really care. It is too much of a hassle to jump back and forth between front ends. They really need to find a solution for that. I have been using the PoB tag on my posts as well.

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Yeah makes sense . Ecency seems to be the top pick right now for many , they have done a great job .

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Yeah, too many mobile projects stopped development. Not so with Ecency!

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True , I remember I used partiko which I loved but it closed down . After that I haven't tried any other .

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Yeah, Partiko was great then they just stopped developing it.

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Now this is the last thing I want to clearly specify . Sometimes you might see a @amr008.pob upvote of say 10 POB on a comment which says " Wow this provided me so much insight , thanks" and you might think , that's not fair at all .

I'm glad to know this. I received a vote on one of my lesser comments and was embarrassed that someone might take issue with that. Thanks for the clarification. :)

Great work as always!

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Just tag me in that case . I will try to provide the explanation from my side if anyone raises voice .

Great work as always!

Thank you very much :)


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This is great and required as number of participants in POB tribe are increasing day by day. With more people being rewarded, this will encourage a lot of people to engage more.
Very Welcoming step. Thanks a lot for all the effort.
!LUV 1

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Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sorry that made me laugh a little haha

Anyway great idea, rewarding more people I think is a good thing and an incentive for more to get engaged on POB. However I think it's not just good for POB but maybe all front-ends? Do you have a specific reason to just do it for POB? Or is it a pilot that might be copied to other front-ends if succesfull?

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Sorry that made me laugh a little haha

I have been using LeoFinance for a longg time , I won't cheat on it with a new front end :p lol .

However I think it's not just good for POB but maybe all front-ends? Do you have a specific reason to just do it for POB? Or is it a pilot that might be copied to other front-ends if succesfull?

Well there are couple of reasons I have kept it for only POB right now .

  1. If you see other tribes like CTP , WEED , STEM - there aren't even 25 users engaging over there . I am trying to push them to atleast 10-15-20 right now . CTP is increasing daily though .

  2. LEO , I don't have enough delegation to give upvotes to 50 users , I need to stake more of it yet . Once the upvotes are of good amount , I will extent it .

  3. SPORTS , I will do it if it goes well with POB .

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I am really fascinated by this project. Whenever I get some surplus funds, I am making sure that I invest them in one of the tokens like POB or Sports and delegate the same to @amr008 and its tribe accounts. Every Sunday, you make us smile.


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It is a great project indeed and I love the insightful reports each week (well yes and the divs rolling in of course hehe), most of the divs I immediately stake and redelegate for compounding weekly!


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Thank you very much buddy :) These words are what motivates me to do more . I will try to give my best to make sure you all who believe in me are happy .


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Hehe, loyal lad. That's a good thing!

Thanks for the elaborate explanation and nice to see a bit of your planned strategy for these front-ends. So the end goal is to indeed increase the amount of accounts eligible for upvotes but there need to be enough and the rewards need to be sufficient too..

Means there's room for growth, I like it and will try to keep delegating more each week.


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. So the end goal is to indeed increase the amount of accounts eligible for upvotes but there need to be enough and the rewards need to be sufficient too..

100% , you are right .

I can extend the LEO to 50 users tomorrow itself but the 40th and above might get only 0.001 LEO votes you know which isn't that encouraging so I am trying to improve the delegation more and more ( which is happening in LEO too but slowly ) .

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Yeah that doesn't sound like a good incentive. But it's still something and might help really new accounts starting from scratch? But indeed mmaybe a bit higher reward is better.

Any specific number in mind you want to achieve before starting that?


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Thanks, amr008 for the breakdown. Raising it to 50 engagers is a good change and hopefully spreads the pob around.

Interesting on the ratio_similar. Looking at the list, it appears to be a good filter when the user has made a lot of comments.


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Interesting on the ratio_similar. Looking at the list, it appears to be a good filter when the user has made a lot of comments.

I agree , I did a lot of trial and error and some "regression analysis " ( Lol ) to arrive at a near perfect value for ratio_similar . It is working well so far .

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Thank YOU! Glad to be included and see that manual curation and interaction and commenting matter.
tips hat,
Thanks from axey :)


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I like and support this idea of rewarding comments, although this is a very complicated task due to the subjectivity involved in this process. Not always writing many characters to express an opinion or reinforce the theme of the publication previously read implies that the comment is of a certain quality. It is right to encourage participation, but it is also important to reward with greater weight those that induce the community to debate respectfully or positively complement the author's work.

The truth is that I don't know if algorithms have the capacity to detect the complexity of what a person wants to express from the depths of his brain, beyond the extension of what is written, quality should always stand out, at least that is what I think, however, perhaps the competitiveness that this mechanism you explain induces in the community can make the qualitative process of the responses increase as the quantitative is multiplied. Greetings.


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Totally agree with your points. I understand your perspective , one of the best things about the communities and Hive itself is it is decentralized .

See I use script to upvote quality comments and there are many users who have more stake than me who curate manually .

So at the end of the day both automation as well as manual efforts contribute to the tribe .

One of the aims of my project is to reward those who are putting a lot of effort engaging with others but aren't getting rewarded for that . I wanted to encourage them so I created this project .

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Epic I love these! When this first started I think over on Leo in an effort to build up engagement I've seen and meet so many more people there as well as POB. These projects seem to really be paying off in terms of getting people active and also caring about the platform and token they are a part of.


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Yeah @bitcoinflood . I started with LEO and added gradually many tribes ( some because the community owners requested me to ) . POB was one such tribe in which the community owner asked me if I could expand to their tribe and I am very happy I said yes .

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Congratulations @amr008! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You distributed more than 18000 upvotes.
Your next target is to reach 19000 upvotes.
You got more than 13000 replies.
Your next target is to reach 13500 replies.

You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Check out the last post from @hivebuzz:

Hive Tour Update - Account creation and Account Recovery steps
Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!
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I've seen you upvoting comments rather than posts. Even so, your upvote was raking up good quality comments.
I never thought this was planned and pre-set.
It's good! honestly, it's a whole different approach of a curation plan.
seems genuine and unique.
Great thinking!


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I never thought this was planned and pre-set.

Yeah I have been doing this for couple of months now :)

It's good! honestly, it's a whole different approach of a curation plan.
seems genuine and unique.
Great thinking!

Thank you racemlaadhar , I feel happy when someone recognizes what I am trying to do with the project .

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Well done on the stats and PoB is definitely increasing in engagement and all fronts. I'll have to look at engaging more, I've been curating PoB posts and I think I'm ranked 47th in PoB holders.

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I think I'm ranked 47th in PoB holders.

Awesome , it has a userbase of 600+ people right now so being in top 50 on your own is a great achievement but don't miss the consistency is my suggestion - if you miss one day you are losing a lot of potential earnings .

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I think I may have tapped out of the top 50 spot now. I have been posting regularly but I dont get the upvotes. However, I am able to mint a few tokens.


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Awesome to be able to know all of this! I remember to have some doubts about the way your project works and from reading your talk to @calumam in one post had already made clear to me. But to be able to fully understand, gotta say this bot of your is a true work of art!

Congratz on this mate! You do a great job to POB and all hive!!!


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Thank you very much for the kind words @fireguardian :) I just want to contribute from my side to the community using my skills you know . Some users like you can write good quality posts , me I can code and analyze that's it :)

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This is a really interesting initiative. For the first time, I received an upvote from you on my comment. Making the participants to 50 means adding more users and reducing the weight. This would actually help new comers like me and would reduce the reliance of the bigger accounts on your vote. If the vote value reduces, I am hoping this would also help in curtailing the spam as the economics would get affected due to reduced size of vote. Great thought !


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What an excellent job you have brought, it is so good to know that community engagement continues to grow, and the best thing is that in an organic way

is there any way to follow this daily ranking? So that I can spread a little bit of my curation also to those who are helping the community to grow

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is there any way to follow this daily ranking? So that I can spread a little bit of my curation also to those who are helping the community to grow

Hey yes , I upload all the rankings to https://hivelayers-stats.herokuapp.com .

There is a delay but I try to upload as soon as possible .

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