Devalued Degrees
It's safe to say the world was a much different place when I was a kid. I see a lot of kids with jobs these days or trying to be influencers so they can live that lush life. It's not that kids didn't have jobs when I was in high school, but it was a totally different dynamic than what you see today. I think you can point to a variety of factors if you want to place the blame.
I had a regular circuit of lawns that I would mow for a few dollars here and there in the Summer, but for the most part, my parents made it clear that school was my job. The traditional path was well laid out back then. Grade school, then university, then get a job. It was baked into the culture, and there was never a question that any other path was viable.
There were actually a few times I considered enlisting in the Navy, but I knew my dad having been a Navy man himself would have been against it. I didn't even bother bringing it up. Now that I am older, I fully acknowledge that university isn't the ultimate destination that it used to be. I was pretty lucky that I escaped my graduate career with zero student loans, I know the same can't be said for a lot of people.
Even so, if I were to do it all over again, I don't know if I would have gone to university. I know a few HVAC technicians and electricians and they are doing quite well for themselves. I think I could have had a decent career in one of those fields, but who knows. Even welding seems like it could have been an interesting and fun field to go into.
However, I did not become a welder. Instead, I took the five year track changing my major two or three times and I got myself a Bachelors of Science degree in Computer Information Systems with a minor in Management. I'd like to say it served me well, but honestly, 90 percent of the knowledge I have was picked up on the job and the classes I took had very little impact on my actual job.
I often wonder how much that is the case with most degrees. Despite that, I won't lie and say it wasn't a lot of work. It was a ton of work and I was so happy when I finally finished up my degree. In fact, I still have nightmares dreams sometimes that I am still back in university and I am always so happy to wake up and realize that time is behind me. I also have dreams that I find out after the fact that I didn't really have enough credits to graduate and therefore my degree is invalid, but thankfully those are bunk too.
When I was in school (okay boomer...), online classes weren't an option. In fact, despite the fact that the Internet had been around for a few years by then, I don't think online classes had even been invented yet.
A short time ago, my sister in law finished her online Masters degree through some university (I don't know, ABCU) and as expected, we all congratulated her for her hard work and dedication.
Which being the asshole curious individual that I am, got me thinking about these online degrees and the question of whether or not they are devalued due to their low cost and easy accessibility than degrees used to be in the past. I hope she never reads this because I am truly proud of my sister in law, and if that masters degrees makes her employer add some numbers to her salary, then that is awesome for her and her family.
Like I said though, part of me has trouble wrapping my head around it. There's something about it that seems "less than" what was doe in the past. In fact, on closer inspection, these degrees might actually have more practical application than the degrees we got in the past, but the path to them seems just seems diminished for me.
Which really makes me feel like a bit of a jerk. I don't think @mrsbozz looks down on me any more because she has a masters degree and I only have a bachelors degree. Maybe I am overanalyzing it, but I'm curious, what do you think? Do you feel that these online degrees from South Central Eastern Nebraska Polytechnic University (or whatever) are somehow less valuable than traditional degrees? Is it fair to even call what I got a traditional degree. What constitutes traditional these days? In fact, online degrees might be the norm and degrees like I got could be the exception...
Unless you are gunning for a top tier law firm, employers probably don't care so much where you got your degree from. It's not like "Suits" where they only higher Harvard graduates.
I don't know, let me know what you think in the comments.
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I took an online degree from university, which implies that some parts of the study you can study at home, others you have to be on campus. All exams are personal evaluations at the university.
It gave me the opportunity to get my degree while having small kids, but it only saved me a few hours a week to be honest.
Was it a major university or one that you had never heard of before. I think that is part of what hangs me up. The fact that many of these online schools sound like they are completely made up.
No it’s a well known university where I got my degree. But I understand what you mean about the system now
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It's interesting how you present so many realities. Sometimes I think similarly. Many people here, without studying, manage to earn incomes that I, as a professional with two master's degrees and international specializations, have never been able to achieve. These qualifications have also made me question why I studied so much in my life... But anyway, I don't think I regret it.
I hope the world reflects and we achieve something better. Hugs!
Did you get your degrees from a traditional university or one that was offered online? Was it affiliated with a major school if it was online?
In person at the Central University Marta Abreu of Las Villas, one of the most important universities in my country.
Well done to you! That' something to be proud of!
Sure!
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University came at great cost to family growing up, normally individual had to excel in Matric results, (grade twelve). Most families saved toward afford for one family member by saving over the years, debt was heavily frowned upon at the time unless wealthy not a decision done lightly.
No such thing as online anything, you physically went to a university or college for as many years as necessary, variety of trade schools at the time readily available as well.
Over the last twenty or so years I feel for young white lads who appear to have lost footing into private sector employment no matter qualifications. Recently all youth in our country suffer with nepotism employment which excludes many over whole colour spectrum.
Answer is to be self-employed then try grow.
Yeah, self employed isn't a bad idea, but that seems to fit more with some of those vocational jobs versus ones that require a university degree. It's going to be interesting to see where this road takes us in the future.
New technology I don't think all these degrees are going to help much, learn by experience and try something new all the time.
That's probably your best bet these days!
Almost everything you need is available to DIY, or create a living through necessity today is online. Failing which call a friend. 🙃
Yes, that is a good point! I don't have that many friends though!
Not many friends either of late, call a son and hope to hell they can help 🙃
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STOPI had been mowing yards since I was in jr high. Unfortunately, my parents pushed me to take on more and more and more work, meaning my school work suffered. I think they realized their mistake and corrected it for my siblings, but that didn't help me much.
I love the idea of university. The classical idea, that of Plato's Akadēmia. The idea of learning to better oneself and society with no other purpose. That of course is almost in direct contract to the modern university system, which is more of high school part II combined with a job training center and somehow doing neither one very well at the lower level and is pretty much solely a networking center at the Ivy League level, while meanwhile burning out professors by pushing them to constantly publish papers no one reads instead of teaching.
On one hand, I kind of see all these online schools and classes as a nod towards the classical model, but at the same time it's just more of the same and possibly less. I've signed up for some of the Harvard online classes. They are possibly the worst of both worlds, and getting in contact with anyone seems a chore. Despite the prof being distracted by all the admin BS around him, at least there are office hours at a real university, but at the online schools... send an email and pray it gets an answer..
I actually think some of these small community colleges are more valuable that the big universities. They have more vocational programs and they have a more personable approach to pretty much everything. I attended one, then transferred to a university. The classes were just so much better at the lower level. I think there is a lot of benefit to people taking that route.
I believe they would be devalued less and less, the further we delve into the digital age (is there anything that's not online these days?). I think they're devalued now to a certain extent because they seem strange and foreign and also in a way antagonistic to people who did complete a traditional university degree. There is much more freedom to an online study plan that might make someone from a traditional background frown. It's probably not as legit.
Maybe. Or perhaps the academic world is simply adapting. I've taken several online courses and am currently enrolled in one such school, and I love it. They've all given me opportunities to study with and learn from great minds in their respective domains - people I would have no access to, otherwise, and that's true for many people. If financial possibility or even a very narrow-minded, limited test of intelligence dictates whether or not you can get into a good school, that's a huge limitation. Now, anyone with Internet access who so wishes can learn from Yale and Harvard professors. I believe that's quite amazing. I would definitely assume there's more people in this world who can benefit from such an education than the aulas of Harvard have room for.
Is it less of an education? Why? Because it's more flexible in some ways? I don't think that's ture. No more than saying a traditional university experience is made less through dorm parties or such.
It's a fascinating subject, and I do believe the world of education is changing dramatically, and will continue to do so. Personally, I don't believe a university degree will continue being the necessity it has so far been for much longer, but then again, I am biased :)
I think your second thought line is probably the right one. I actually work with a fair number of people who think something should be done a certain way because that's how it was always done. They still haven't figured out that kids learn differently these days and their minds are wired differently. What worked before, doesn't necessarily work now. It seems I have generated a lot of discussion with this one!
My degree was in computer science and I don't have any regrets. At the time having a degree really helped in getting a job. Getting a degree isn't about making you an expert but really more about making sure you have a basic set of skills and a capacity to learn the subject matter. These days there are other ways to prove that (at least in CS) so a degree isn't as necessary as it once was.
As far as online classes, I think most major universities offer some of their classes online these days. As for online only schools, I don't really know enough about them. I assume the legitimate ones use the same accrediting organizations so I would guess they are at least as good as some in person schools...which isn't really saying much.
Degrees are still useful and in some cases absolutely necessary...depends on the profession you want to pursue though and not everybody really knows what that is at age 18.
As I said in one of the other comments. I think my biggest issue with many of these online schools is that they sound completely made up. Kind of like the example I created in my post. They are these small regional universities that are trying to reach a global audience to stay relevant. You are probably right, they likely have all the necessary accreditations, but there is a weight to saying where you got your diploma from and it is one of those power conference schools.
I have bachelor of science in accounting from University of Kansas and Master of Accounting and Management of Information systems. The degrees basically opened a door into consulting company, but other than that first job they were not of much use to me. I also graduated with no student loans, I worked during my university days...
My son got an early start and got out of University of Washington with a computer science degree two years before his peers. He has been working in his current job for over three years now. He made over 100K in his second year there and it is a fully remote job. He will be 24 this month and he is now going to the University of Washington for an MBA degree. His company will pay half the cost if he makes an average of B or higher... For some reason he decided to go for it and spend 10K a quarter while working...
Do you feel like those degrees from Big 12 and Big Ten schools have more value than an online degree from Southern New Hampshire University, or the University of Phoenix?
I might be old-fashioned, but I believe all in-person degrees have more value than online degrees. The exception might be if the school is really high ranked like Harvard, their online degree might be equivalent or better than Big 12 degree...
I feel the same way, which is why I wrote this post. I was curious to see how common that belief was!
The landscape has changed a lot in regard to post-secondary education in the last five or so years. I think work-experience accounts for more than a degree, especially in the tech sector, but some employers still require that piece of paper to get in the door.
Trades can be a really decent choice. Our son decided to become a licensed plumber. It was a real grind getting there. He had to go through a five year apprentice program and four years of schooling but when he graduated and was licensed he began making six figures with benefits and a nice pension. He makes almost the equivalent of my wife and my salaries combined when we were working white collar jobs. If I was a young person getting into the job market today this is the route I'd go.
I went to community college (Columbus State) and, luckily, paid quarter-by-quarter never having to take out loans. Back then I think my degree helped open doors that otherwise wouldn't have been. I think the debt load we're forcing on our young people to pay for college during their best earning years puts them at a huge disadvantage and is a real shame.
Yes, although it may have not been what my parents were hoping for, if I had it to do over again, I think I would have definitely went into a trade. While degrees in general are kind of losing their luster, do you feel that there is a gap between online diplomas and traditional ones?
Knowing what I know now I'd probably do the same at this point and get into a trade. I saw so much downsizing, increase in responsibilities, and reduction of raises/benefits/pensions in the white collar world from '95 to '17 it was a sin. I think the protection of worker's unions, although not perfect, are necessary in our greedy world. I agree with you, I think online degrees have contributed to the dilution in value of in-person degrees. I think all of the graduates (online and traditional) are now lumped into the same category except for the Ivy League grads—these degrees still carry more weight. I think if HR were to see Princeton or Harvard on a resume those people would still get preference.
Don't even get me started on the unions! :) I haven't had much positive experience with them though I know there is probably still some good out there. Basically they just use the union as a crutch to be lazy and complain. Thanks for the good insight on degrees. I kind of feel the same way, but it makes me feel bad for people who I know have worked hard to get those online degrees.
Oh, we hear those gripes from our son too! Some unions are more corrupt than others. Seeing the benefits he has versus what we had we still think his union provides more protections than we ever had. The main problem with his union is the apathy and lack of participation by the workers. It seems like the only people who vote on important issues are those who have certain agendas. Our son goes to almost every meeting though and we're proud of him for that, there just aren't enough workers willing to participate...kind of like low voter turnout in elections. You're welcome! I feel bad for those who get non-Ivy League traditional degrees as well. I just read a US government statistic released today—over 25% of unemployed people have at least four year degree.
Oh wow, now that's a depressing statistic!
It's insane really. It supports your original thought though.
Degrees are not what they once were. They quality of the past is not the same, and some online degrees don't offer the practical applications that in classroom setting provides. And you can hardly do chemistry labs online... Some degrees will always retain more value like medical or law degrees by the mere fact they are doctorates and hard to be accepted in the program and achieve. But psychology or or literary degrees are a dime a dozen.
I know electricians and plumbers who make far more than your average physician or lawyer these days. Their rates are astronomical! You can be my cheapo out there buy you usually pay for it as the work is subpar. Technical jobs are a great way to go to be honest, as is the military. You can get great technical training in the armed forces and end up making much more than had you gone to college and piled up huge debts. Plus those guys who were special forces do consulting work in private security and can make a fortune!
The days of us old timers going to classes without the online stuff being available is long gone. It's a brave new world, and higher education is now not what it once was...
I definitely think in a different life I probably would have done something in the electrical field. I think I could have still gotten a degree and learned some business knowledge or something. I guess a lot of it just depends on your end goal. Do you want to do something you love or do something to make the most money possible.
Reading this blog gives me another perspective of what will happen when I graduated. I am scared, because it happens to most, that I will also experience that situation of gaining practical knowledge 90% from work and the four-year degree I studied and financially paid was not a help in my career. I believe that because some accounts that they are still not capable after graduation and can't even remember a basic concept on their programs. In Philippines, there is a widely discussed question that says: Diploma o Diskarte (Diploma or strategy) that asks people what is the best tool to use in career and what would make a person be successful in earning money in all possible digits. Some folks would say a diploma secure a career but some says a strategy makes the whole career operate and open many paths. While the discussion creates this respective forum, the choices are still hard to pick, because the future is uncertain in our country's economy. I hope I won't end up in that state of being blank in a workplace.
Online class I guess is one of the factors why graduates don't have enough practical skills when they graduated. I mean... I am experiencing it now due to the earthquake and I say I am not even learning. Im afraid I won't have any learning in 5 or 6 months when I move to my last year. I won't say it is less valuable than traditional one because it is a remedy when things got worse like a pandemic or earthquakes. But I would say it is less practical and experiential which the students need the two to learn.
I think you still need that degree to get your foot in the door a lot of places, but the knowledge you gather doesn't really have any impact on your ability to do the job. Most of that is learned through actually doing the job.
I grew up when high speed internet just came out. I wasn't an influencer, but at 15 I was proud that I ran a website bringing in over 10,000 views per month and made about $50/month in advertising revenue. I taught myself to code HTML in the process. It taught me to think outside the box. These days, it seems like everyone is desperate to go viral, but not realizing how hard it is to stay relevant even if you get lucky.
These days, I think degrees as a whole are becoming largely overvalued. It's not like it was where you could graduate and easily find a high paying job because of the piece of paper.
If my sons decide they don't want to go to college, I'll simply encourage them to learn a trade. You can make great money becoming a lineman, HVAC technician, plumber, electrician, welder, etc. The best part is you also end up with less debt and you have needed skills that you can use immediately.
If I had to do it over again, I likely would've skipped the degree and gone into a trade.
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It wasn't until I was a young adult that high speed Internet became widely available in my area. In fact, it was several years after I moved out that my parents were finally able to get it and I didn't move out until I was 24! My niece had a Tik Tok video that got something like 2 million views, but like you said, it is hard to sustain it. She hasn't had any others come close to that before or since.
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