Is Auto-Renting Ruining Splinterlands For New Players?

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(Edited)

I keep seeing it. Every time I go on Reddit there are people complaining that the PeakMonsters auto-renting feature is skewing the game further toward the wealthy players.

Yesterday the post I got stuck on was full of hyperbole saying prices have "gone up 10x" and everything gets snatched up immediately by the auto renting bot so you "can't even get cards below market value anymore".

And if it's on Reddit, it must be true right?

Well, I sure as heck wish it was because I'd be rich.

What's really going on though? I can only speak for myself but I have about 2300 cards I try to have rented out at all times and that's a pretty good sample so let's use it.

Usually around now I'd have about 17k Dec coming in per day and I'd have about 2000 of those 2300 cards rented out. So where am I at right now with everything "ten times higher!!" and "immediately being snatched up by the auto-renting bot?"

13k dec with a whopping 783 cards sitting untouched on the market.

Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 11.43.38 AM.png

I was excited when Peakmonsters announced the auto-renting and honestly I still am. But as far as I can tell, it's not really being widely used yet as most of my cards are still renting out for either 1 day or enough to cover the season. I'd very unscientifically say that about 2 in 10 of my cards has rented out for 2 days and there's every reason to believe that many of those two day rentals are just 2 day rentals and not auto-rented.

This means so far, hardly anyone is even using the feature, yet there are people going on and on about how it's an assault on new players and all the good cards are going to the wealthy players who are willing to throw money away with bids that don't make sense to new players.

Maybe I just need to stay off reddit.

So I ask you fellow rentors. What's your experience right now? Is it similar to mine? Am I an outlier? I'm really curious to know.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta



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24 comments
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I haven't noticed a dramatic change in pricing. I might even say that I find that a lot of useful cards can be rented for lower now, especially if you are not in a hurry to get it.

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Patience is just not something people have much of anymore I guess lol.

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(Edited)

I started renting out my cards after peak monsters released the auto rental program, and about 1/2 of my cards seemed to be hit by auto grabs. Those are mostly still the cards that are rented out. It is a very small sample size, but I haven't attempted to rent since then so I don't know how prices compare to previous rentals. 200cp/dec is still under the power rental threshold even, so it dose seem kinda like power rentals are still cheap.

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Interesting.

I started on the rental market day 1 so I've been watching the prices evolve for a while and I'm pricing pretty close to where prices were midway through the last two seasons and I keep adjusting them lower and still getting undercut by cards that also aren't being rented out. You must be considerably lower than that. Thanks for the input. I'm very curious now how our cards and prices compare out there. I wish there was an easy way to compare.

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The easiest way I can think of is just upload my rentals list from peakmonsters lol, I am still very new to Splinterlands and don't even have 1k cp total in cards yet.

rent1.png

rent2.png

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rent4.png

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Thanks for posting these! It looks like many of your cards are going for .1 so thats the difference I guess. I'll usually hold onto any cards I can't get at least .4 for so I can keep some power. I think that's where we're seeing the difference.

It looks like you're building a nice nest egg there for being new. Nice job!

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Hey! Your not alone!

I haven't got nearly as many cards as you do, but I have enough out there, and have spent enough time with it, to have seen that the rental market has indeed changed a bit. I don't think I've been at this as long as you, but... I think the recent changes have 'splintered' the markets even more than they might have been before.

I wrote a thing about some of that here, you might find it interesting : Markets Within Markets ~ Diving Into Splinterlands Rental Markets Using PeakMonsters

Recent changes being, the requirement to hold power through EOS, plus the new PeakMonsters rental bidding system. The new rental system is a sort of response to that 'power market squeeze'... at least that's my impression.

But, it's pretty new too... and there's a lot of 'programatic activity' that goes along with a bid/ask market matching system. It's complex. A small example, I've noticed if I list a rental at the 'bid' price of an open bid, it get's filled straight away. I also remember a mention that 'new listings' were processed first, if not preferentially.

I've also noticed that an expired rental, even if it fit's an existing 'bid' price, will sit unrented... and if I change the price just slightly... as a new listing, it get's picked up pretty quickly.

This makes a little sense if you know how computer programs and or matching algorythms work. But I can't say for certain that this is a 'feature' or a 'bug' or whatever, just likely a result of complex processing that is inherent in the design of matching things with thinges at multiple dimentions that are constantly changing. (That was a 'run-on-sentance' for sure LOL!)

Doing that with blockchain data is particluarly challenging as some source information may have limited availability... like Splinterlands API's. Imagine how much data goes through the market system per second... that's a lot of data to sift and match and do again and again and again.

I'd love to have someone else 'validate' what I'm seeing?

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Thanks. I just checked out your post. Good stuff.

I don't think this was in response to the end of season ramps. The posts peakmonsters have been putting out make it sound like this was always the plan but it just took some time to build.

One thing I've noticed is there can be listings that haven't been picked up and then when I post mine at a higher price, the whole lot gets picked up.

For instance, the other day there were several silvershield warriors for rent sitting on the market for 3-4 dec. I put four of my own on the market for 5 dec and in seconds everything below me and my 4 were taken up. So a new listing in a card seems to alert the algorithm to check all the available inventory in that card even if the new listing is higher than what's already on the market.

Honestly, I've never really thought of peakmonsters as amazing when it comes to ideas, execution, or eloquent solutions. It's usually clunky and heavy handed so I'm not surprised it's a little wonky here. I mean, I'm happy to have it and I couldn't personally code something better but it's a little like using a sledge hammer as a golf club lol

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I totally get where your coming from about the sledge hammer and the golf club... but from a technical perspective, PeakMonsters is a marvel! Splinterlands is a marvel!

I know it probably doesn't feel that way on the front ends so much... but it really is incredible what they've done, in so short a time, with so few people. I hate to sound like a fan boy... I'm not... I am a network architect though, and database people have always been my number 1 pain in the ass. To work like people expect, databases need 'unobtainably fast' networks.

This really is cutting edge stuff. Database stuff is incredibly challenging, not just hard, but REALLY hard to do at scale. On top of that, decentralized databases are essentially an infinite scaling scale...

Trying to market match with a decentralized database makes it all even more complex. Bases of data are being evaluated against each other at some defined interval... the higher that interval the more 'geometric' the load. Combine that with blockchain block and confirmation times, and you get a kind of ballet dance in a thorny briar patch that ends up looking like a 'robot gone crazy'.

Your observation is likely very accurate and the 'interval' in this case is likely a 'change' in the list market. That matches closely with what I think I'm seeing too.

Cheers!!!

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(Edited)

I'm just now trying to learn a bit of python. I can't imagine yet what goes into all this but I appreciate your insights.

They reinforce the idea that with all these new games and metaverses popping up and claiming they made it before writing a line of code, they all have so much catching up to do before they really get here. Splinterlands is still the place to be.

!WINE

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Indeed!!! That kind of 'no code' hype used to have the not so flattering name of 'vapor ware'... these days they call it marketing!

I agree, Splinterlands is the place to be.

Thanks for the wine!

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My rentals have dropped over the past couple of seasons but have been a lot steadier. No mad rush at the end of season but no huge drop at the start.

Staying more consistent. I think that prices are down overall as the auto feature suits the players rather than the owners. It let's them set the price and wait to be filled.

I think it's better as rental prices are not sustaat 200% APR on cards. If we can keep our entire deck rented for the year at 20 - 30 % I would be very happy and better for new players too.

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I've been struggling to keep mine up as they used to be around 25k and now I can't get it back to 20 for more than a few minutes it seems but Dec is worth more so it evens out. I have noticed that its evening out over the last few seasons though.

200% on the whole thing is probably too much but I don't think 100% is unreasonable when you consider what it really means. You could rent this card for an entire year for the same price as buying it. If it were a house that would be a problem but being that its a game it's more reasonable. People rent clothes for 500-1000% apr because they would rather use it just a few times than own it and its a luxury good. Same here I think,

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Thanks! WHy is it always so exciting to see the 1up dude in my feed?!

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I need to start listing more of my cards. You are earning 17,000K with 2000 cards and I'm sitting here with 20,000+ cards and currently getting 5000 DEC daily. I only have a small portion listed for rent (I'll have to remedy that).

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I've awoken the monster lol.

I have about 3000 cards but I don't list anything that will get me less than .4 dec so it ends up about 2300 cards I try to rent out.

It's worth noting that most of my deck was built for rentals. My cards are low level with lots of gold foils, summoners, epics, legendaries, and a few others that just rent well.

I also spend about 20 hours per week actively managing which has really helped me to understand the market, the natural prices, and its various dynamics and ultimately build a nice income.

I don't know what amount of your cards are listed but 20k cards is an absolute beast of a number that can and will move the market. I think it would take a team of people working a full time schedule to manage it all in a way that doesn't just smother prices.

If you aren't already, I'd add in slowly while trying to actively manage what you've got in. Put some time into watching those prices and see how they move. I think it will help you to really capture the full force of that massive catalogue as Splinterlands gets big enough to absorb it all.

Let me know if I can be any help.

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