Blurred lines
I'm on the fence about guys walking around towns and in enclosed buildings half-naked.
Yes, temperatures are high, and some people have very little tolerance and find it difficult to cope with the heat. However, everywhere along the streets, in shops, at the train station, and on the trains, during the summer months especially, I'm surrounded by half-naked men, who parade about freely, with no one batting an eyelid.
It's a norm that irks me; One that goes way back to my childhood, which I have touched on in the past about my resentment for the bra...
We, women, are all experiencing the same heat and perhaps discomfort as men do. Some women might even be experiencing menopause and affected by hot flashes, yet we are required to wear extra garments (more than men do) without objection, to men removing their single garment — a shirt.
Imagine this scenario:
"I'm walking along the main street and suddenly my brain registers just how hot and uncomfortable the temperature has become. So, I position myself, quickly remove garments that are contributing to my discomfort, take a deep breath and start to appreciate the relief."
Be honest, wouldn't there be an alarm, a panic, an outrage, and possibly sirens?
Isn't that sexism?
I've found this information on the UK stance about rejected petitions for women to go topless and the rules outlined if you are interested to read them.
I say yes it's sexism based on the fact that it's not illegal for women to go half-naked (topless) in the Uk, for example, BUT, there are blurred lines:
These blurred lines can be found in the laws of public decency/indecency, where the intent of the half-nakedness would be evaluated in any which way you lose the case.
I am a realist to know that there will never be equality of the sexes, but that doesn't mean that women should not fight around it to implement other laws that might lessen the margins of inequality.
I acknowledge that some laws do help to protect women and that the positives might outweigh or diminish the negative impacts of what could happen without such laws in place.
I know that in some cases religion is the deciding factor, but personally, my views are not on any religious merits.
Gender-based violence goes way back to the Stone Age, and I'm not deluded into thinking that giving women equal rights to walk around half-naked will have a positive impact on society. However, I think the laws of public decency should be re-examined, to make it unacceptable for men to flaunt their half-naked bodies in public spaces, just as women can't.
Ex. I'm quite a naturalist and I would gleefully run around in the woods in my natural state of being or even halfway there. Yet, although it's not illegal for me to go out topless, it would be frowned upon and I might unintentionally cause an alarm, which could jeopardise my freedom.
I know that I cannot change societal views and laws, but seeing half-naked guys parading in public spaces continues to have a shock effect on me.
"I'm so scared that my jaws drop open when I see half-naked men on the streets!" 😱
Are there women out there who think that we should perhaps lobby to have the laws modified, to restrict men from parading around towns and public spaces half-naked, i.e. by considering such states to fall under indecency? Other sexes, please feel free to share your views, as I support equality:)
Photos are my own.
Hmm. Interesting one, does give one food for thought.
I noticed when we were in the UK in June, how every guy almost was shirtless (already), and it was shocking. Earlier today, I saw a shirtless guy here in Bucharest, as temperatures are pretty high, and was surprised (And a little apprehensive). It's quite rare here.
Personally, I don't mind (as long as the guy isn't drunk or high or bothersome in some way), but I do see your point about sexism. I was in a half-open hawaiian shirt (over swimsuit bikini) yesterday, and was quite aware how that might come across as skimpy or something. Even though the temps were soaring, and I wasn't being indecent. Very different standards between sexes, not ones I'm comfortable with, though I don't think stopping men from being barechested would go far.
It would create resentment for one. And it's how we've wired our society to view things -- a male's chest is not threatening/obscene/whatever, while a woman's is. Obviously BS, but I think the rewiring needed to create equality on this count would be massive, and go deeper than simply having both genders/ neither gender walking around half-naked.
Oh, it's the norm here in the UK.
Yeah, like the resentment that I have? Sounds good!
That's not a bad take.
Yes, you are right about the rewiring, and changes would not happen overnight or quickly.
However, I think eye-openers are effective to an extent and can highlight the need for changes or even just a niggle...
Scenario: I'm sitting with a group of guys at the park and they complain about how hot it is, remove their shirts, and gasped "Ooh, that's much better." Yet I'm sitting there like a stooge with 2 layers... I guess I'm a feminist, or too rebellious and will do what I need to do to highlight my point.🤷♀
Good point. Although if you look at (some) women's summer clothing, the fabric is much lighter than men's, precisely to accommodate this difference of perception (since men would likely perceive it as provocative/lewd if a woman took her top off).
Well said. I agree. Maybe an organized movement (rather than one lone woman taking her top off) could help raise some awareness, force the topic into discussion.
YES! And I'd be happy to lead one!
Me going out there and taking my top off would be just a freak show that would land me in trouble.
"Vox populi" though, is a different matter.
This was just a random rattling of my thoughts, and when writing it I realised that I'm passionate enough about it to find out the steps that it would take to lobby for such...
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It is a deeply controversial topic... I live in a small town in a rather Third World country... However here we have a girl (named "Amparo" and whom my mother taught in school by the way) who one day started to sit outside her house during the hot afternoons... But she started doing it with her shirt off and her breasts out in the open!.... The first few days people made a fuss and it was Amparo in top-less was the most talked about thing in town, then people started to see this as normal and it stopped being news... Amparo never stopped sitting shirtless in front of her house (and still does today)... In fact, a few days ago I saw her riding her little scooter with her naked torso and people were greeting her naturally... I have always thought that: "In this small and third world town, there is a heroine who has overcome one of so many inherited taboos"... But this is a very specific case with Amparo, because here (and in many places as I see when I read your post) we are still frankly retrograde in this respect...
Anyway, very interesting theme for a post and a "beautiful cat" in those photos, my dear friend and top author @millycf1976! Thanks for sharing!
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Hats off to Amarpo! If I was still single, I would be another Amarpo, but my husband has asked me to do otherwise.
See, it's something that people could get used to.
💯%
That's a level of freedom, acceptance and tolerance that I appreciate ✊
In my early twenties when I lived alone, my friends always came uninvited to my house and objected to me being stark naked. As far as I was concerned, I was at home in my haven and needed to be comfortable in my environment. I told them they could seek other places to go, but they kept coming back.
So with half-naked men, I think my problem is more with the inequality than with the lack of garments.
Thanks for your lovely feedback😊
I think Amarpo would stand with me:)))
PS. That cat lives a few blocks from me. I've only seen him once though 😍
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Thank you so much @discovery-it
I appreciate your support in getting my post seen:)
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Thank you so much for the pizza. The perfect thing for me on a rainy Friday😋
Ah Milly, spare a thought for us aged spinsters.
😆🤣
Oh good god! I take it back! Ban shirtless men! Down with that sort of thing!
Haha! I missed this comment. Yeah, they come in all shades and sizes and confidence levels that you'd die for 😂
Strange is, I remember back in the late 80s it became common here for women to sit "barebreast" (is it the right word?) at the places where we went to swim or on their own balkony or garden.
But it seems the 21 century comes with restrictions again.
I think there should be a BMI or "six pack" law 😂 without it men are not allowed to remove their shirts 😂
I met a young woman who has breast removed because of cancer. But she didnt want the new "build up surgery".
She has wonder bras for occasions she wants them, but most of the time she goes out just like she is.
And she has a lot of hate speach to hear again and again 🤨 to hear her story made me SO angry!
Yeah, I can't imagine the restrictions they have in these modern times, but strangely, on the other hand, I think human trafficking will become the biggest crime over drugs in a short time. It leaves questions about laws, societal norms, and so much more.
I think you're on to something good there 😆
Now, that is so sad to hear. 😏
They say the pendulum swings both ways, and this is such a controversial topic for me. I think I have a problem more with the inequality and sexism of it, more than the guys being half-naked.
Yes, I can understand that very well. Unfortunately, we are still a long way from real equality, even in our Western countries. Phu, all it would take is tolerance, letting everyone do and be what and how they are. But people are afraid of that.
I think officially it's always about "protecting us" ... but it should finally be about men being able to keep their desires in check.
YES! It's the same way (we) women are forced or expected to keep our desires in check, right?
... we must be silent and allow prancing men to flaunt their bodies but we MUST cover up 😆
This is absurd!
There are so many things absurd in our society 🤷♀️ I stopped wondering
But Look, there is a restaurant in UK where you can try how it feels to be natural
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/what-its-like-in-naked-restaurant-bunyadi-london-food/index.html
Hehe! That's so funny, especially with nude staff too.🤣
I never heard about this one at all😆
Haha me too never heard before. I read @coolmidwestguy 's comment here wich brought the idea to Google it 😂
I could see that happening in the Netherlands, but not so much in London.
I worked at a 5 Star hotel, where half was Au Naturel and the other half Prude.
The Nude side was the most uncomfortable section of me to visit.
What made it so strange was that I was in charge of a local charity that collected school supplies for kids in underprivileged schools and I would take guests to visit the schools, fully clothed of course. Then sometimes I'd have to go meet them on the Nude side of the resort.
I felt odd interacting with a bunch of naked people, and they took delight in my discomfort. There were some hideous sights that you would pay NOT to see.
Not very respectful those guys :-(
Yay! 🤗
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Thank you so much @verdesmeralda and @ecency for your support. It's highly appreciated:)))
Here in the States many businesses have the no shirt no service rule. Do they have that in the UK? Not going to lie some of the guys that go shirtless have bigger bobbies than some of you ladies, haha. Why they decide to take it off is beyond me, it's not like it's doing them any justice. Maybe ok to go shirtless at the beach but than again if you think it about it that's sexist too. Anyways it wouldn't matter if they made it a law to me if shirt wear was required in public or if they let ladies do the same as us guys. As long as I can sit down at a restaurant and not see front skin while I'm eating.
I don't know of such a law here.
However, if there was, I would offer my services as a street warden for free.
Canva free photo designed for this purpose
In the Philippines (the first place I ever saw it) police stop men on their motorcycles and tell them to put their shirts on.
It's a controversial topic for me because I have no problem with nudity, however, I'm a feminist and will fight for equality... and I know that I am not gonna get it, so I must be met halfway!
I completely understand I really feel for some middle eastern women where they have to cover everything basically.
I'm happy that I was born in those regions of the world. Although some of the women don't mind covering up, and you'd be surprised to see what's underneath.
They do indulge and splurge on sexy items, and that is a fascination in itself 😆
Thank you @ladiesofhive:)))
How come the women don't walk around like that in summer, i would prefer (or maybe not always 😬).
Men's naked bodies in public are gross to the point, that there where some house rule in my Pub's... Leave dogs outside and enter only with shirts on! 😁
It's amazing the rules that we are forced to make. Like where is common decency? lol
Ha, that would need a free mind... hahahahaha
💯% 🤗
I think there is a deep misunderstanding between "offending the eye" and laws. What offends my eye does not need to be legislated, is my view on this.
There are men I find quite handsome bare-chested and I would be sad if my eye were no longer allowed to behold such naked masculinity. If such things were banned by law (or habit), then not only the rather unattractive men would be deprived of the opportunity to give vent to their sweating upper bodies, but also the others.
In my opinion, granting women and men equal rights is pointless because they are unequal. I say frankly that I do not think that the image of the always oppressed woman is correct. They may have been disadvantaged in some areas of life, but not in others. Women never had to go to war, they are statistically less suspected and convicted of criminal offences. And if a woman wants to take revenge on a man, she has many means to do so. She can damage the man's reputation, ruin his financial existence if she sets out to harm him. Fathers have a much harder time getting custody of their children in this country, for example. Dealing with men at the youth welfare offices, for instance, is not necessarily the same as dealing with women. There are also interesting historical examples that contradict the image of the eternally oppressed woman. But that would be going too far here.
I just want to say that I plead for a free body culture and then also accept that my eye is insulted from time to time. By the way, I would say that if you sexually harass someone, it's the intention rather than the appearance.
Greetings to you.
Some great general points here @erh.germany.
Thanks for checking out my post, and have a fantastic weekend:)
thank you. You too, have a good weekend :)
🤗
How are you dear friend @millycf1976 good morning
I loved the post, and the controversy about it. It does not seem fair or reasonable to me that men can move freely semi-naked on public roads, while women cannot do so without being judged by the way people think. That is, women can also slair semi-naked if they wish, the issue is that they will always be judged by society.
I take this opportunity to wish you a splendid weekend
Hey @jlufer,
It's a controversial topic, indeed, with so many dimensions to it.
I wish you a great weekend too:)))
That's an interesting convo for sure!
Hah. I never eeally thought about it much tbh
I've suggested more than once, to my son, that he take his shirt off when we're out and he's been uncomfortably hot. He prefers not to.
I've told him I totally would if I were a guy. But never thought much about the different strokes thing. The sexism, I mean.
Honestly... in my country it's not worth the inevitable hassle. And I mean the men and their behaviour. In fact... all things considered... in cultures like mine I see the value of the Burkha.
I've considered wearing it, in fact.
Now I just dress like a boy and groom less. And I get less shit from the men around here.
Ridiculous, huh?
So yes. One would have to address many things before one addresses the dress around here :/
Yeah, it's not something we think about and not much that we can do about it, but it's a sexist acceptance
I get you on that.
I feel you there. Them things wear me down, and my tolerance for that is low!
Yes, I get that too, which is a sad reality 😏🤗
On the flip side... once you get older and start going grey you can pretty much tell 'em what you like and they still call you ma'am. 👍
Hang in there.
But for my daughter... thanks for the good fight, sister. You have my full support (but I don't wear a bra much anymore so not much support there :D )
😍🤗💐
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Thank you!!
It's my pleasure:)
Half-naked men is a no for me. I find it disturbing unless we're at the beach. It's silly when you think about it, but I've always found it to be something only bad mannered men would do; it's all my parents' fault, as they wouldn't let my brothers go around or sit at the table shirtless.
Toplessness is something we don't have to deal with in Venezuela so far, but transparencies and tiny tops--nano-tops--have paved the way to make it legal anytime soon, our government being so proud of our indigenous topless women whom they'd let die from starvation, slowly and other hypocrisies. I wouldn't be happy about making toplessness legal if I live enough to see it by the way. I'd rather have men put on their shirts if they'd be walking around us women.
Our breasts are too fragile and sensitive, I think; right now I just can think of men having their testicles growing out of their chests; that'd need a bra definitely! But that's just my really subjective opinion.
Thank you for a post to give something to entertain my mind while I am sitting on this bus in this hot weather in my light long sleeved sweater, @millycf1976 😌💕
Yeah, that would be a better approach for sure.
😆😂
Your comment made me smile.
When we think of it, it's actually scary:)))
It is! But you know they'd be wearing a bra if that was the case 😜
That's what you call a win-win situation 😆