RE: Hive Middle Class Developing
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Eventually those tips start pouring in
Survivorship bias - There are people with youtube channels of exceptionally composed and produced content, animated, scripted, algorithmically catered to perfection, and they get 300 views tops, half of them probably themselves checking why no views.
We never hear about the failures, only the successes.
You can't guarantee to people to just keep chugging along. Something has to change and adapt to the environment - they have to do something else with substantial business acumen to get it off the ground, rather than just hope for enough luck to go viral.
Even if Hive did go viral somehow and get a sudden influx of a million users, they'd ride the market wave and dump asap, with a user retention rate here of about 1%, I don't see why it would change just cuz more people join. They'll be gone inside of a week with a nice chunk of change for some AI generated contenet that took 30 seconds.
All they've done is shifted money over from their bank account to their Hive wallet
This is a leap of faith based on long term gains 99.9999% + of people will never do, unfortunately.
Due to the fact this is a phenomenal deal, more people are encouraged to provide support naturally.
The opposite is true, people are encouraged to provide support artificially, which is how you get all this culture of circle jerking, auto-voting and other forms of abuse. This isn't unique to here, by any means.
On the contrary, it's natural support when people actively spend their money to support the content they like, such as via patreon or allowing ads.
But more to the point, you've made some leaps back into a totally hypothetical situation with no real practical path to get to that result, short of simply 'Just need a few people to be able to understand what I'm saying and doing it for themselves.' - well, what people? How? Who is going to tell them? How do we know they will stay, or invest? How can we make them? What is so appealing about an insignificant front end that doesn't even make it in the top 50,000 websites in terms of traffic, and is less valuable and popular than the majority of scammy shitcoins?
None of what you've said has happened yet, and there's no reason to think it will.
The missing piece here is the initial investor, the big, wealthy stakeholders that invest specifically so they can have a stake in how things succeed, with the specific goal of growing their own passive wealth. It's this that drives most companies to greater heights in the real world. Your idea might be future friendly, but we're in the present, and future friendly isn't interesting to people living in the present.
There is a barrier, a Great Filter, preventing your ambitious views from happening that you haven't managed to address (and neither has anyone so far in the last 8+ years).
I don't wanna be too doomy. I am still here and I still have faith in this project, and I want to figure a way to make my totally awesome concept come to life here. I just think it's a much steeper uphill battle than you suggest, and I don't think anyone should expect a sudden boom of recognition after a hardfork or something. It's gonna crawl at a linear rate for a long, long time, if not forever - and if there is a way out of that, I haven't seen it - yet!
I didn't say everyone earns. I didn't say everyone succeeds. That was left out because it's commonsense. The eventual tips pouring in can be observed on other platforms. It happens, often. Streamer example, it's hard to find one where someone isn't being thanked for the tip.
What I'm attempting to point out and often fail is how the support system is the only thing that makes this platform different. It's not used effectively though or even marketed.
Pointing out how it can be used to gather authentic organic support. You're seeing how it's being used now to recycle existing money and the rest of this disaster.
A content creator here could easily use patreon. The supporters then lose out on the benefits of staking and voting. That's the difference. Same action. Better deal for the consumer. And in eight years nobody has tried to get outside support by offering those perks. I'm talking about "natural support" as you put it. And there are plenty of studies pointing to the fact consumers spend more when perks are involved, but that's not the point.
When I explain it, most can't see how consumers/supporters and investors have different mindsets. It often turns into this whole story about how they'd dump for profit. Their goal is to support content, much like they would using patreon or tipping a streamer or youtuber or anything. They're coming for content, not crypto.
This model that already exists without changing anything here can compete with patreon, and win.
I said I just need a few people to understand what I'm talking about. You're not one and explaining this any other way still won't make sense to you. That won't stop me from continuing on trying to find those people that get it. Some do. Most don't. Most are stuck in their comfort zones here or convinced everything is broken and it's a lost cause.
Without outside money coming in to make up for the cost of the content here, all this content amounts to a net loss. That's not attractive to any big miracle investor, unless they came along to build something combined with the same plans I'm trying to highlight here. They'd want to make money.
Our Hive Engine tokenized communities with several contributors and a weekly payout is akin to a weekly issued magazine. In order for someone to purchase that magazine, they stake tokens and vote for articles. The reason all those tokens struggle is because they didn't sell their "magazine" to readers.
Creating a product for consumers, ignoring consumers, and hoping for a big investor to show up is ridiculous. There's a scaled down example of how seeking outside money, embracing supporters and offering those perks that come standard would rejuvenate the entire project. It's very basic business principles I'm pointing out here. Nothing more.
(sorry for late reply - time zones)
Agree! I think this highlights that we're actually both in agreement. I even said in my original response this very statement. Hive itself is ready to go, the issue is not its function, but its appeal (none).
It's not that I, or others are too low IQ to understand these basic principles of how things should, could and would work. It's just demonstrably, they aren't, don't, and won't.
I've literally been here for as long as you, pretty consistently the entire time, I've been involved in projects for years and I have plans for a new one. So I personally believe in the system and obviously see its potential and the various ways it can be utilized effectively. If not, I would have quit long ago.
However, it's just not an ecosystem conducive to 99.99999%+ of people as consumers/supporters, let alone a hawkish investment-minded elite who could get the place kickstarted. I get that there's an entirely new way of thinking about things regarding stakes and encouraging engagement for rewards. But that clearly, demonstrably isn't nearly enough.
Hell, this place could have the greatest possible online ecosystem ever to be constructed that could single-handedly transform the planet into a utopia. It still won't get off the ground on merit alone.
Generally, it's the support a project gets from big investors that gives users the confidence of legitimacy and up-and-coming vibes. Even that doesn't guarantee things - just look at all the failed Google projects out there with all the financial backing in the world - but it absolutely raises the chances far more than simply depending on users being slowly drawn in like a donkey drawn to a carrot on a stick.
Most people from outside coming in think about it as such: A dodgy place where you turn money into fake money in order to generate more fake money which you can't actually do anything with, and you have to suffer through reading boring content and writing even more boring content in order to acquire said fake money.
That ball and chain has never been able to be shaken off. Marketing to consumers alone isn't gonna be enough. If Bill Gates came along and studied it and poured a ton of his money into it, then everyone will be like 'well hang on a minute, legit, uncensored blockchain social media? I'm in!'
Alternatively, front ends are perhaps wiser to conceal or minimize the very fact that blockchain and hive is even involved in whatever project they create, and make those independent projects successful in and of themselves in the traditional sense of start-ups
I wasn't suggesting people aren't smart enough to see the difference. It's just years of programming and always doing things the same way. Crypto is synonymous with investors. Consumers in crypto hardly exists; rare and does not compute. Once those elements become more part of the background, crypto is just money.
I know crypto has a bad name. General public thinks it's trash or thinks they'll be ripped off. Demonstrating how this platform has a solid foundation with evidence won't help either because they won't understand the demonstration.
People do understand "see video, like video, comment."
Also, and I'm not trying to be confrontational and offering counter points just for the sake of argument.
There are big investors here.
You're looking at the current form of the content, thinking people wouldn't be interested. And I can agree, a lot of it's boring and wouldn't attract outside support. When I'm talking about this, I'm not trying to sell this content.
So what's more likely to bring more people? And influencer smiles and says Hive. Or a content creator with their own community offering this support system to their followers.
First one has happened several times and doesn't amount to a damn thing. Second one hasn't happened yet is far more appealing since the only way to move that crowd would be to offer them a better deal. Now you're "marketing" to both content creators and consumers. The people who have large followings on the outside never once brought paying supporters with them. It has always been a missed opportunity. Those supporters trust the personalities they follow. Unfortunately that has led to ripoffs as well. Crypto Zoo for example.
Luckily this platform is decentralized and this approach couldn't turn into a rip off like that. Still, again, those people on the outside wouldn't understand that. I get all this.
Eight years though. No progress in that department. Always the same excuses. Gets old.
People are free to continue creating products for consumers and ignoring the consumers. Can go on for another eight years. Perhaps by then they'll catch on. Magically.
Maybe it's worth mentioning a current case study. Vibes. Look how fast it's growing. The existing support must be shared with each new content creator showing up. Without any added support, the more popular it becomes, the faster it stagnates. The solution is to bring in outside support. People spend billions on music each year. That's a decent pile of money to tap into and this is the first time people that enjoy music can earn to support it rather than throwing those billions away. So there's two choices. Ignore the consumers and allow it to stagnate. Or attract the consumers and allow it to prosper. Boils down to a simple choice.
Watch.
Yep, agree here too.
My idea to get around this blockage is, in my humble opinion, genius on many levels but A) I'm too worried about sharing it and the idea getting stolen B) I don't have the business savvy to get it started C) I don't wanna spend my money knowing the low, low success rate of otherwise great projects here in the past.
Basically a lack of confidence from me - I'd trust you enough if you're mildly curious to hear about it in DMs or something - but point being, that's someone of 7 or 8 years on here lacking confidence that it'll work out. It's much harder to imagine people from a totally outside world coming in with this entirely different and complicated ecosystem, even if you have a large community of loyal followers. I think there's a line in the sand some people just won't cross.
Shifting that line in the sand in our favour is, apparently, extraordinarily difficult to do, but we certainly agree it's not impossible. Just missed opportunity after missed opportunity - including, guilty as charged, my own.
I added another thought to the end of that comment. Just something to watch in real time. It could potentially be the first community to get this ball rolling and they're doing a lot of the right things so far. Vibes is doing an incredible job of tapping into the outside world.
I've been going on about this for years and know what to look for. I understand the lack of confidence and I see that being a common trait here. I'm stubborn though and when I set my eyes on something I don't stop looking at it. It's been frustrating for me though, and people know that. Doing my best to not become bitter and resentful.
I also don't expect anyone to change. So when I see a new community and new people ready to go and make something of this opportunity, I get excited. And it isn't that hopium shit critics with no real plan like to throw around when they don't understand, disagree with something, or just feel like mocking others.
Everyone knows it's uncool to care.
I spent awhile demonstrating what can be accomplished here but where I failed was not having the outside market to tap into so I could simply show people rather than talking about it. Never saw it as being complicated. Could have done so much more. To make up for that, I try to make people see what I saw.
Not impossible. And right now the last thing I want to do is overwhelm that new crowd and community by stepping up and trying to explain. Too much, too soon. Not my project either so don't want to interfere.
And that low success rate you speak of boils down to building and depending on only the existing consumer base. The problem snowballed into this lack of confidence, naturally. Saw it coming years ago but couldn't do much other than point it out. Of course nobody wants to hear they're setting themselves up to struggle. Build it and they will come only happens in the movies.