Hive: A True Digital Nation In The Making
Few have ever considered what it takes to create a nation. What is the plumbing that has to be put in for it to operate? Since most of us arrived in countries that were already established, it warranted no consideration.
Sure, we could read the history books and study the early founders. However, that only provided a glimpse into what is required.
With the development of blockchain, we are seeing this become a pressing issue. Discussions about what is necessary are now occurring. The idea of the network-state is upon us. Many are starting to consider the implications as we proceed forward. What we do know is this will change everything.
Blockchain provides an interesting scenario. It is a "nation" that anyone can enter (as long as it is permissionless). At the same time, all are open to acquiring stake. In fact, in most, you need it to operate.
In other words, to truly enter the system, one needs to get a hold of the value capture coin.
Liquidity Plus Speculation
These systems can suck in liquidity. This is because of the combination of speculation and real world usage.
Anyone who is around cryptocurrency for any length of time understands the speculation aspect of things. This is 90% of what we see discussed. What is happening to the price of the coin or token.
That said, it does serve as a vehicle to pull in liquidity. This is powerful when the bull market is running. However, we all now that boom times are followed by busts. It is the nature of markets.
Here is where the real world activity comes into play. As services are available that people want, the requirement is there to hold the coin since it is the gateway into the ecosystem. This is a fundamental necessity of the system.
Of course, real world is subject to the business cycle, something that is can be painful when in the clearing out phase. It is something that many have tried to alleviate since we tend to dislike pain. This is where resiliency is vital.
Until human psychology changes (completely), the business cycle will be with us. This is because the tendency is to overextend during the ascending periods which leads to excess. Inevitably, this has to be cleared out.
Much of this is tied to the plumbing of the country. With Hive, we can see how this is very strong. The base layer operations are some of the best within the blockchain realm.
Value Capture For All
The advantage that Hive has is that it provides value capture for all. This is true at both the base layer and whatever layer 2 projects are created. Proof-of-Brain (PoB) is a serious distribution mechanism. It is also something that separates Hive from most everything else.
Look at most any blockchain, or its second layer tokens, and there is one thing that is constant: buy it. One needs resources to get involved. This is a problem since much of the world lacks any resources.
Another factor in this is people can get new money. The theory around this is called the Cantillon Effect. While some might be able to get LTC or ETH through faucets, that money is already distributed. It is not new. The same is true for applications such as NoiseCash where BCH was being doled out. That already existed in someone's wallet.
With Hive, the reward pools, at both levels, is new money. This means that we are reversing the Cantillon Effect. Average individuals are able to acquire the new coins or tokens created.
It is as if a laborer (or average worker) suddenly became a bank. Instead of being the 18th person in line, he or she goes to the front of the line. Since this is global, the person can be anywhere.
When it is the base layer coin being received, one is able to then to accumulate an asset that captures the value tied to the entire ecosystem. This is why they care called value capture tokens.
Wealth Creation Built On Top
Where is the [business]9https://leofinance.io/posts/@leoglossary/leoglossary-business)?
When it comes to Hive, if we are using the nation analogy, we can easily see the plumbing in place. What is missing are the businesses. If we are calling this digital land, where are the communities that engage in commerce.
Here is one of the major flaws so far. Ethereum was able to capture this since it was (is) the leading smart contract chain. This allowed for massive development of projects that bring enormous value to that network. Hive is still lacking this.
What happens when there are a number of people on Hive who are millionaires, but not in the base coin? In other words, the value generated was on something other than the base layer.
This happened for a brief moment with Splinterlands. Alas, the bear market ensued and most forgot. However, there was a ton of value generated from that game, some of it still in people's wallets today. The next bull will remind people of that.
Many have claimed we need a dozen Splinterlands on Hive. This is true. Again, look at the analogy to a digital nation and you can see why this is the case.
Driving Value To The Base Layer
One thing that we have to keep in mind is that everything we do on Hive drives value to the base layer. This means that the more projects we have, the better it is for the whole. This is a fundamental aspect to the premise of a scenario like this.
The circular nature of this cannot be denied. If Splinterlands becomes the most played game in the world, do you think that would impact the value of Hive? Of course. While this might be a bit outlandish, the idea of hundreds of projects driving value is not.
Hive has communities. Those can be thought of as cities. Just like New York and San Francisco (Silicon Valley area) add a ton of economic value to the United States, a few breakthrough communities will do the same. Splinterlands is a game which certainly can serve the purpose. There are, however, other communities which can excel.
Here is where the future lies. Hive will become a true digital community because it does offer a place for communities to form.
At this point, we cannot overlook the impact upon speculation. A bull run coupled with some communities starting to break through will unless a mindset that most do not presently have. They will see how layer 2 tokens can be of value. This is something that should be based upon the building of the community. However, we know how markets can get.
Either way, we are seeing a true digital nation forming. Liquidity is going to flow into the Hive ecosystem. There is already a project in place that is starting the process.
It is likely that, if successful, it will be duplicated.
If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.
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Great post @taskmaster4450.
Though, the context in this post is quite interesting, but i couldn't accumulate much.
I guess for Hive to grow, our activities in every communities must be dynamic and more relating to what add values to the ecosystem.
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Hive is far from a digital nation. One of the defining characteristics of a network state is that it achieves diplomatic recognition. Hive is far from that. And likening communities to cities is outrageous. Some Hive communities don't even act like communities. The City of Neoxian is probably the closest thing Hive has at this point, but it really is just a community.
To see what a true network city looks like, check out Cabin.
Of course, none of this is to say that Hive can't become a network city, or even a network state. But it needs to quit acting liking a platform, and Hivers need to stop patting themselves on the back on the basis of dreams and actually achieve something as a community first. So far, it's nothing more than an echo chamber of Web3 enthusiasts, and that's coming from a Web3 enthusiast.
Instead of looking at the mountain and saying, "I can climb that!," how about actually climbing the mountain and showing the world that we can?
Forking this chain from STEEM was something achieved by the community.
Borehole projects in Ghana are achievements by this community, bringing clean water supply to hundreds of people.
Tell me what are the Cabin's achievements?
And why do you think that we have to narrow what we define as a network state to what is described in the network state book? We can form our own kind of network state without satisfying the criteria in the book. The book is not an authority on what a network state is.
@mrtats, thanks for the response! Here's my retort:
The book to which I linked (titled The Network State) defines what a network state is. Nobody talked about network states until Balaji Srinivasen defined what that is. If you're going to call yourself that, you should have a decent respect for the person who came up with the idea. Calling yourself a pumpkin doesn't make you a pumpkin.
As for Hive's achievements, get familiar with my work. I'm a big fan of Hive's. I've praised it in many places as the best example of Web3 social media decentralization. I'm also on the record as saying it is my favorite Web3 social media platform. In my newsletter, I tell the world why Hive is so good and why they should use it, on a regular basis, going so far as to include monthly reports on my earnings here (where I earn more than on any other Web3 social media platform).
So, you see, I'm not anti-Hive.
The STEEM/Hive fork was accomplished by the witnesses, not the entire Hive community. Sure, the Hive community was supportive, but unless you're a witness, all you did was watch passively and collect your free airdrop of Hive tokens.
The Borehole projects in Ghana are great achievements, but did they involve all of Hive or just one regional community within Hive? By the way, I've written about Hive Ghana and the great things that the Hive Ghana community are doing. But their achievements aren't exactly driving mass worldwide adoption. And need you ask what Cabin has achieved? I pointed that out in the comment to which you responded. They've built a real network city in just two years! In other words, they're not just talking about it, but they've actually done it!
My comment above was not a criticism of Hive. I was addressing the constant barrage of over-optimism and self-congratulatory praise that takes place on a regular basis by self-appointed Hive evangelists like the author of this post. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just pointing out that a more sober-minded approach to discussing what makes Hive great may be more effective. Perhaps?
There were people who came up with the idea of heliocentric solar system before Copernicus, but we mostly attribute it to him today. Being first to an idea doesn't make you an authority on it and I disagree with Balaji Srinivasen's view of network states. I don't have to give respect to someone who was first to a logical conclusion of crypto communities and economies.
If community did not support the move, Hive today would worth didley squat. See BLURT and other forks.
Yes, since it is getting funded by multiple people that are not part of the Ghana Community. Even if people outside of community were not directly involved, all of Hive is contributing to every project on Hive by providing and generating value. If no body here provided and generated value, there would be no bore hole project.
Also what Cabin has achieved is not something hard. Building a few cabins in the woods, people did that before Cabin existed. I own an apartment can I declare it an apartment on Hive and create the first ever apartment of Hive? I don't think so. Show me the economic output of Cabin then we can talk about their achievement.
To be clear this is one of the parts I disagree with Balaji Srinivasen, in my view a network state is not required to own physical assets. A network state can be formed virtually, and be represented by its members in the physical world.
I did not say you were anti-hive, if I did it would have been an oxymoron. Since you are here and contributing value to Hive. What I said was that you are stuck on a narrow band of view.
Strawman.
Yes it does.
Disagreement is fine, but at least give a hat tip to pioneering thought on a subject.
You don't owe anyone respect, but no one owes it to you either. Respect is earned. Srinivasen has earned my respect even if he hasn't earned yours.
Agreed.
This is very easy to verify. All you have to do is join Cabin.City and see it for yourself. They did more than just build cabins in the woods. And economic output isn't the sole determinant of a community, city, state, etc.
You should learn about something before you talk about it. If there is any such thing as common sense, this is it. Again, it's super easy to get a handle on what Cabin is and has done.
Disagreeing with someone is fine. I don't think a network state must necessarily own physical assets either. And I'm not sure that Srinivasen believes that either.
That's precisely what this image of a network state shows (taken from Srinivasen's book).
I absolutely am not. I believe in giving deference where deference is due. Hive is not living up to its full potential, but it's no one's fault really. It is what it is, but it isn't a nation. It's barely a community. It can still be improved. Might it some day be a nation? Perhaps, but it will have a lot of hills to climb to get there. Cabin did in two years what Steem/Hive have failed to do seven, but these are entirely different beasts. It's like comparing a watermelon to Deep Space.
It is there to establish the point that being first to something doesn't mean you become the authority on it.
No, it doesn't. But since the first example failed, let's give another example.
Today, most people pronounce the GIF with a hard-g despite the format's creator saying that it is pronounced by soft-g. IF being first to an idea made him the authority on the subject we all should be using the soft-g but that is not the case. Because anything that is not fact-based can't have an authority on it.
Your achievement argument comes from Srinivasen's definition of a network state, which as I said earlier I disagree with.
Taken from Srinivasen's book's Chapter 5. As I said this is one of the things I disagree with Srinivasen but not the only one, I pretty much disagree with all of it.
According to him, a network state must consist of homogeneous minds. Cannot be a community of communities. Require a leader etc.
So I don't defer to his view of what a network state is and I'll never will.
As there are nation states that don't conform to definitions put forth. There would be network states that will not conform to definitions. (De-jure vs de-facto.) And as there are multiple definitions for nation states, there would be multiple definitions for network states.
And Hive in my opinion is on its way to becoming a de facto network state in the future.
Okay, think about the logic there. Essentially, what you're saying is 1 million people being wrong makes the 1 person who is right wrong. Do you seriously believe that?
For many years, most of the planet thought the earth was flat. Was it flat? No. It wasn't then and it's not now. Someone came along and educated the rest of us on what the earth really looks like. Then we got pictures of it.
You can use this logic on anything. Just because an idea is popular doesn't mean it is correct. If the creator says it's pronounced with a soft G, then that's the correct way. But I'd presume that, in the case of GIFs, the creator isn't going to go around knocking everyone on the head for mispronouncing it. So, the hard G becomes the culturally acceptable variation, but that doesn't mean it's correct. This is the case with a lot of malapropisms.
For instance, have you ever heard someone say, "for all intensive purposes?" It's very common. But it's wrong. What they mean is, "for all intents and purposes." Other popular examples are "irregardless" and "I could care less." These are incorrect, but very popular.
No it doesn't. It comes from their achievements. Take away Srinivaen's definition and Cabin has still achieved something no one else has.
Okay, fair enough. But you can disagree with an authority and still respect their work. Hardly anyone writes like Shakespeare any more. Hardly anyone even tries. But you'll be hard pressed to find a writer anywhere on the planet who would say Shakespeare wasn't a great writer or poet. Even people who argue that he had a ghostwriter or wasn't a real person still recognize the skill involved in what he did. Not liking someone's musical style doesn't mean they aren't a good musician. I can gather up several dozen examples of musical artists I don't care for, but I'd still recognize their skill.
Which is? Tell me in concrete detail what they have achieved.
False equivalence, one is something that is based on facts the other is subjective and does not have an objective truth that can be applied.
Same for language, the wrong usage of words could become the new correct way of saying things because language is not something objective that stays that way all the time. If millions of people use soft-g when pronouncing the GIF, it will be the correct way to use soft-g when pronouncing GIF.
And I haven't said that I don't respect his work, I said I don't defer to his view. Maybe I should write a critique of the Network State and become an authority on the subject myself. If publishing a book is all it takes to become an authority on something.
I told you. They have a bona fide network city, but it's not just a bunch of cabins in the woods. They have a DAO with a very specific purpose, and they live up to that purpose. That's not to say it can't be improved. I'm looking forward to seeing how it grows. Of course, it could all fall apart once they have 100 properties and 5,000 members. Currently, they have a couple hundred members and a couple dozen properties, which the DAO doesn't own. But that itself a part of the achievement. They don't have to own the properties because what they're doing isn't about the property. It's about the community.
You should. That's really all it takes. But it also opens you up to a lot of criticism. Every great conquest must endure great battles.
See this is what I am talking about, this is not a real achievement, it is something that has been done for years with some crypto added for seasoning. It is nothing new.
And as I told you earlier, I have a few properties if I declare them hive properties do hive get to achieve the same thing? If it is about community, hive already has achieved more than cabin or do you have a very specific narrow definition of "community" that only cabin can achieve?
You have to check it yourself. You're not understanding the concept. The Hive community is nothing like the Cabin community. Very different cultures.
I believe the title says "in the making".
Does that mean that it is here now? No.
Okay, fair enough.
I wish Hive will not have to force everyone to create content in order to be rewarded. We lack consumers of content because everyone is trying to publish something. How is that a nation? A nation where everyone does one thing is not a nation.
@threedotz, it's not a nation. However, Hive is built on the premise that content creators can monetize their content without fear of censorship.
No one is forcing anyone to create content. You can earn on Hive in other ways. Develop a dapp for others to use, curate content created by others, etc.
Hive is an opportunity, not a hand out. That's a part of its beauty and charm.
Thanks for the clarity, I read about someone a few days ago who was complaining about her content (pictures) being downvoted by hive watchers. That’s also content and should be rewarded, except there’s another reason for that.
Unfortunately, there are some downsides. Downvotes are annoying, but one could argue they are a necessary component to Hive. I don't know who your friend is, but @hivewatchers exists to downvote spam and low-quality content. The reason that is necessary is to counterbalance attempts to take rewards from the rewards pool without proper merit. Of course, "quality" is a subjective judgment. I can't vouch for Hive Watchers' ability to do that perfectly.
If there is some argument about whether a downvote is warranted, I believe Hive Watchers has an appeal process. I may be wrong, but it's worth looking into. Otherwise, you can always upvote content you feel is unjustly downvoted, to counterbalance the downvote. You can also rally others to upvote such content if you believe it was unjustly downvoted. While that does involve some work, Hive is a blockchain that allows, encourages, and supports that kind of pioneering.
Hive Watchers doesn't own the blockchain, but they exist to protect it from spammers and low-quality posters. Many people support their work. It's up to you to judge whether what they do is worth doing.
Typing and publishing just one letter "A" is also content. If you think that spam, plagiarism or low effort junk-posting should be rewarded, I think that you may have confused Hive with Steemit or Blurt.
Nation states have done a nice job of making a complete mess of the real world, must we bring that to the blockchain? In many ways HIVE embodies the basic principles of anarchism; decentralized, autonomous, individuals acting for their own benefit as well as for mutual aid and support of the community. Could explain why governments are so hostile to crypto...
So I'm still a bit fuzzy on what exactly the 'network-state' entails, but I can't help but wonder why we want to go with state based conceptual framework at all. We've got something here that seems to work surprisingly well (albeit more slowly than most of us would like) without it, I can't help but think this is one of those 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' situations.
@coloneljethro (love that handle!)
The network state is defined in this book, free for all to read online.
I appreciate what @taskmaster4450 appears to be doing: rallying the troops for a worthy cause. Nothing wrong with that. But referring to Hive as a nation, or even trying to build a nation, is not representative of what Hive is, what it purports to be, or what its creators (who are not the witnesses, by the way) intended for it to be.
Hive is two things: A protocol and a platform. The protocol is the blockchain. It's not owned by the witnesses, but it is controlled and protected by the witnesses empowered by the collective support of all Hivians but especially those who have bothered to participate in the governance of the blockchain by voting for their favorite witnesses.
As a platform, Hive.blog offers content creators a means of creating censorship-resistant content that is easily monetized. It does this through the power of the protocol.
I think this is a beautiful sentiment:
I'm not sure about the anarchism part. It's not a laissez faire winner-take-all environment. There are rules. They're defined by the protocol and not a centralized body of lawmakers. That makes for a huge distinction. However, you are correct in challenging the notion that Hive is, or should want to be, a "state." That's not what it is, not what it should be, and certainly isn't on track to become one. I like it just the way it is.
Here is the quick definition:
To claim that Hive is not moving in this direction is impossible to state. of course, we cant say with certainty, since none of us knows the future, how this will unfold and if we get there.
However, there are pockets forming in the realm world that started online. Will they have an impact on the present government system (ie recognition), time will tell.
Of course, this presumes that many governments will still be standing in the future. There is a chance that areas we are seeing penetration might be devoid in the future.
Yeah, well, that does call for a lot of speculation. Of course, the network state itself is speculative because, as of now, there isn't one. It's a nice dream, though. I rather like the idea.
I guess Hive could be moving in that direction, but it has a long way to go. I'm not sure whether the entire Hive community would be interested in that. Maybe some will and some won't. It would be an incredible achievement, though, if it did happen.
It isnt a conscious effort at this point, I agree. And we never know how things will unfold with newer entrants and players. We are dealing with all hypothetical so it is just a guess.
I would say the offline stuff is pockets to start.
So we can see some offline activity tied to the ecosystem. We will see what evolves in areas like Sucre. Those will be some of the first test cases.
What's going on in Sucre?
State is not referencing the state as in government. It is completely different.
It is closer to a state of being or what was is.
Ah, gotcha.
I'm not sure if Hive can be considered a 'nation'. It is an economy, but people will be subject to local national regulations. But the Hive economy has a human dimension as it is social and we develop our own norms that are not necessarily enforceable. I've always said it's like the wild west. We don't want a president or government, but we do get some civil wars. As it grows I think we will see some big communities forming which will set their own norms.
Very well put. Hive consists of an economy and a culture. It even includes a level of politics. But it is not a network state. It's a social blogging tool. That's all it is and all it needs to be.
Nobody says that network-states have to have a president or government. There has to be governance for sure but that can be designed in many different manners.
For now but that might not be the case in many areas in the future especially if gov'ts around the world encounter major issues. We are looking at a century of disruption (for many reasons) and that is going to include governments.
How many feudal systems do you see around today? That use to be one of the prevalent forms of government.
This is definitely a thought-provoking post with some interesting ideas !
I believe that to understand nations we have to go back to the Neolithic Revolution, when they first emerged. That was the point where humanity abandoned the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, settled down and started farming.
The key concept underlying nations is strength in numbers in a defined geographical location. This enables co-operative action to defend the people and assets against physical external threats from other nations. Everything else (social services, taxation, bureaucracy etc) is just fluff on top of the basic defensive need.
A digital nation fails this test on both counts. It can't be separated from the "legacy" nations by geography, and dual citizenship should be an option not a necessity. It lacks the ability to protect it's citizens from physical external threats, which is technically what it would be if the authorities of another nation (a legacy one) send their armed forces (or police) to kick in the door, confiscate assets and imprison citizens.
So I can see we're developing a digital society or digital community, but not a digital nation. That will only come when we can defend ourselves against other nations and have the option to be totally separate from them.
Great thoughts. I had to Google "Neolithic Revolution" too see if it was a real thing. Congratulations! You've done your homework.
I wouldn't exactly call early agricultural societies "nations," however. City-states perhaps, but not nations. Nation-states didn't really exist until the Middle Ages. You are right in pointing out that Hive is not a "digital nation." If you want a good read, you should check out The Network State. It's free.
And in 50 years what is protection? People think that what we have is not going to change.
To be honest, the last 40 years has seen a massive shift, more than the previous, well history of humanity. So to think that in 50 years, we are going to look at this as the same.
For example, I would be that by the end of this century, cyber (whatever that means then) is a much bigger threat to people than physical.
We are making history!
When we talk about the digital nation, it is already in existence on Hive, and from what I see it can only keep expanding, we are at the foundation stages of needing businesses to set up. An advantage Hive has over other blockchains which you mention is to join and earn tokens as opposed to buying.
I saw a newsletter platform Paragraph which I was hoping to utilize but because it is built on Ethereum I had to stop researching further because I know I am going to pay gas fees down the road, probably not done the road but from the onset.
Honestly Hive is the place to be.
Paragraph utilizes the Polygon L2 layer, which drastically reduces gas fees. I use it for my newsletter.
I am going to have to give it another look at it. Thanks. What is your newsletter niche? Finance?
I write about Web3 two days a week. I write about Christian topics one day a week and travel on another day. If you subscribe, you can choose which of the communities you want to subscribe to, so if you're only interested in Web3, you can subscribe only to that community. Or you can subscribe to multiple communities and even all of them.
Great your web 3 and travel will be of interest to me.
Cool. It looks like you just subscribed. Welcome aboard!
Yes I did. Thanks
Things are shaping towards that direction. Building communities that reflects cities is a good starting point. I think layer 2 projects can be as valuable as the base layer if not more. And both can add to the overall growth of the economy.
There is the potential for value to be built on top of the base layer.
How markets price it is always up to speculation. We will see how this unfolds.
If there are a lot of things built upon the second layer, it is unlikely that one project can usurp the base. All will feed value in. A pump in something could alter that, at least temporarily, but I would look for long term value being encompassed at the base. The layer 2 will have its success and many will get wealthy but it is a lot to overcome the base with many different projects.
Right. The base layer sets the ground work for the success of layer 2 and everything that's build on it. It will have the most value in the long term. And I think it will also be more sustaining compared to layer 2.
Wow!!! This picture of building nations, is all it takes for everyone currently utilizing web three to know we are freedom Fighters and to win your territory from the colonizer doesn’t come cheap, without serious negotiations and blood.
Amazing reminder of what’s at stake here.
Well that is a lot taking place that is going to change things in the coming decades. Hard to know what things will be like in 30 years. Technology is going to disrupt many things and concepts will change.
But the old power struggle is always in play. We see it with the existing system.
Read the comments @taskmaster4450
Your fluff posts are rightfully getting called out as exaggerated bullshit now.
Maybe you can start to respond to actual critical thinking by the Hive community.
How do you not feel embarrassed to post this bullshit?
That's right you only do it to extract rewards. Seriously though it's good to see community actually putting forward a logical and rational counterargument to this nonsense you produce sometimes.
I've listened to every Balaji interview I can find but haven't had a chance to read his book The Network State yet. Love the concept though and what you describe with Hive is most certainly relevant. Hive fest is one example of there already being IRL meet ups of a digital group of similar minded thinkers. It's exciting to consider how this community grows over the next decade.