Raoul Pal Talks About Hive (He Just Didn't Know It)

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It is funny to watch someone, even as smart as Raoul Pal, try to shoehorn an argument about something. There are few advocates as dedicated to the new system that is being created as Pal. At the same time, he is a huge believer in Bitcoin, something that carries much of his focus.


Source

Here is the headline from Dailyhodl.com.

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Pal is making the comparison of Web 2.0 to Web 3.0. In the article, he discusses how companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google benefit from the network effects.

“Bitcoin is the perfect behavioral network because it rewards you in money. The more people you bring into the network, the more your money goes up. That by definition will create tribalism because everybody’s now incentivized for their network to go up more than the other network and for all other networks to fail.

It is an incredibly powerful tool for building a network where you have money attached to it. So imagine if every Facebook like was a dollar, imagine what that would do. Or everybody you brought onto Facebook paid you in Facebook shares. That’s what Bitcoin is. It’s incredibly powerful and that’s why it creates narratives because like a religion, it’s all about getting more and more people into it.”

He then goes on to say this:

“Once you’ve unleashed the genie out of the bottle of behavioral economics and big data, everybody figures out how to use it for different means, and it splinters everybody into different groups and it’s almost impossible to deal with because it’s a network. It’s not centrally pushed. Facebook is not centrally pushed, yes there’s an algorithm and stuff like that but its a network that everybody’s incentivized to get more people into their network because it makes them feel good by getting the dopamine hit with the likes, its crazy and that’s where we are, and Bitcoin is like the most perfect echelon of this of anything I’ve ever seen. And most people don’t really understand that.”

Source

Pal's argument with Bitcoin is not incorrect. However, his stretch to Facebook and Twitter isn't a direct correlation. It is true that, in terms of value, the more people you bring to Bitcoin, the more your holding of Bitcoin is. That said, Bitcoin does NOT reward users in money. A new person who acquires some Bitcoin, who uses the network to simply transfer money, is not rewarded with Bitcoin. This person has nothing unless he or she buys more Bitcoin.

The reality is that Pal was describing Hive perfectly. On Hive, when people conduct an action, they get rewarded with money. Whether it is the layer 1 token (HIVE) or a layer 2 token, the result is the same.

When comparing to the Web 2.0 applications like Facebook or Twitter, we see an ideal comparison. Upvotes on those networks might give the dopamine rush yet it truly carries no monetary value. Each activity is going to make Zuckerberg and Facebook shareholders more money. The individual is left with only the chemical rush.

Hive is a completely different story. Each vote does have value and any activity rewarded will result in some kind of payout. This is a complete transformation in concept.

Essentially, without many people realizing it, the Hive platform is starting to lay the foundation to completely transform the world of social media. In fact, a case could be made for the microblogging application that Leofinance is about to unveil carrying enormous power simply because of what Pal says. It is modeled after Twitter, provided the same capabilities (likely on a scaled down version to start). This means that Pal's comparison is a perfect fit.

The tribalism he discussions is something that we cannot overlook. Naturally, we see that with the maximalism that already exists in cryptocurrency. There are those who believe their chain (coin) are the best and everything else is just trash. This is not entirely accurate either but it does denote how people think. As noted, this is behavioral economics at its finest.

Once people start to arrive at an application built on Hive, they will not leave if it is extremely successful for them. We are seeing how the value proposition can truly explode. Let us take Pal's first statement and adjust it.

Hive is the perfect behavioral network because it rewards you in money. The more people AND ACTIVITY you bring into the network, the more your money goes up. That by definition will create tribalism because everybody’s now incentivized for their network to go up more than the other network and for all other networks to fail.

The difference is the more that someone uses the applications on Hive, the more money they will have. Those who figured out this secret understand what it means to be dedicated and consistent. When people place well constructed comments, they get upvotes. This is in addition to what their blog posts yield.

At the same time, curation, for some, can be a full time job. If they amassed enough stake, they can earn a fine return simply by pushing the upvote button. Of course, this applies to most everyone, it just depends upon how much of a particular token one has.

It is amazing to consider the foundation that is being laid on Hive. We are seeing the applications starting to appear that will bring a lot more to the table. At the same time, some of the industries greatest thinkers are starting to frame the Web 3.0 conversation for us. In doing so, they are making the case for Hive and all its applications without even realizing it.

They are talking about us without even realizing it. Now it is up to us to simply redirect the message they put out in the proper direction.


If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.

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44 comments
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Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!
Week 43 of my contest just started...you can now check the winners of the previous week!
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How does Bitcoin reward new users with money?
Unlike Amex, you can't collect points, instead you will have to pay trx fees.

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That is the point. He was making the case that is one is holding Bitcoin, having friends and family start using increases the first person's holdings. It does not, however, provide Bitcoin to the users.

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That describes a Ponzi, not a value proposition.

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Not really. It is the network effect. If you believe that is a ponzi, then it appears everything is including the entire stock market.

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Stonks don't depend on another person buying an asset from me. It depends on the value the underlying business provides to customers over time.

Bitcoin has a unique value proposition in that it can transfer and clear huge sums of for a low price and rather quick. This feature is only useful on occasion, to a limited number of players. For everything else, there's Mastercard ;)

I don't take issue with BTC. Raul's description of it rubs me the wrong way.

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It is a long jump for a lot of people, but I always like to show them a large account and the passive income they can make just from curation when I am showing new people Hive. I think if you focus on what you can make as an author they will quickly loose interest. Especially after their second or third post that only makes a couple of cents. If you can show them the big picture, it gives them much more incentive to push on. It kind of feels like people are looking for answers to a question right now and it (Hive) is right in front of them, but they just aren't seeing it yet.

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The layer 2 tokens make it easier to present the situation you mentioned. There is more than one way to get to the end destination. We now have a lot of projects that can enhance the holdings people have.

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Because this is such an awesome post, here is a BBH Tip for you. . Keep up the fantastic work

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" When people place well constructed comments, they get upvotes " that's very true for Leo and not so much for Hive

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Well if there is an upvote on Leo, it is also on Hive. Every vote I give has a Hive value tied to it.

So it is misleading to frame things that way.

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there are a lot of people like yourself which have a much more valuable Leo upvote than Hive upvote so your Leo vote is the one that counts from an objective point of view. Hive whales ( which don't have much Leo if at all ) are not incentivized to upvote comments because of the low returns on upvoting comments, at least that was the case one month ago when I spoke with tarazkp about it. On Leo there are no such issues.

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The change in the reward curve has altered that. There is a lot lost by upvoting a comment in Hive. However the payout does occur in Leo (or other tribe tokens).

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Nice argument, I can't believe he hasn't heard of the Hive ecosystem?!?

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He might have but I dont think he focuses a lot on alt-coins. There are many out there. If it comes across is radar, I would guess that it is tied to DeFi.

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If Hive ever sorts out real DEFI it could well go BOOM, whether it's LEO or the Hive-Engine team or both that does it.

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Bitcoin is the perfect behavioral network because it rewards you in money. The more people you bring into the network, the more your money goes up.

This doesn't feel like a perfect definition of what bitcoin really is, its just a surface basic economic and the system and tech is not really what he's painted. This feels like how you'll define a ponzi Scheme and crypto isn't this.

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I think the main problem is that HIVE isn't well known and it doesn't help that a stock comes out as the first google result when you want to search HIVE block chain. I also think most people like Raoul Paul look at the market cap of a coin/stock. If it isn't big enough, he won't consider it. It might be the amount of capital he wants to deploy and the risk involved.

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That is why the promotion of Hive is immaterial. It will come down to the apps built and the users they get. That is why the microblogging app could have an immediate impact. We can just go wild talking about that.

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Someone should get his attention over Hive. In regards to rewards, I'd say that the dopamine shot one gets from comments, upvotes and reblogs on Hive ia pretty similar to the Facebook one, but more high quality. I admit I haven't imagined 2021 to be such an awakening year for crypto.

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There will be a lot coming. It is only a matter of time because this all comes together. We are seeing so many new things that it will all happen, seemingly at once.

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The more I see of stuff like this the more excited I get for the future that lies ahead for all of us. If only people just knew what was happening and we need to hurry up and grow as this secret ain't being kept quiet for much longer. The clock is definitely ticking and the new things like micro blogging will be like open sesame.

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There are a lot of tentacles that are reaching out. We are seeing many things that will pull people into this.

It is exciting to see and the microblogging application could be the first step in the move towards much greater adoption.

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we need marketing!

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Need to understand what we are marketing. The idea of marketing Hive is passe, unless going after developers.

It is time to start promoting the DApps. The first one to go full scale is the microblogging.

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well that's what I was getting at... publicity of Hive, Dapps etc. But there are already good initiatives that are often trending... so we have that going for us

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Once this entire ecosystem reaches into the dollars people will began to take notice. Humans are wired this way. People see something valued in the cents as not being worth the effort. However, add $1-$5 and people take notice. And Leo will be the honey pot that attracts the bees..:)

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That is very true. There are people who will not participate until things are more valuable. Part of that is the liquidity issue. If you were to put $10 million into Hive, it would be tough to get out quickly if you wanted.

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There is also the secound part of his quote, that I think is hopefully not correct for the future:

That by definition will create tribalism because everybody’s now incentivized for their network to go up more than the other network and for all other networks to fail.
Hopefully it is not required to act upon and hope that other networks have to fail, because more profit is in the cooperation. The main thing is that people are tied to a platform with a minimum of loyality. The value of the tokens is tied to that. As long as a group of people is willing to but effort into it, there is a value. I really think this will get the first mover advantage of LEO longterm. Bringing a lot of people ( a lot possibly excluded from the current financial system) to crypto, rewarding them for their work and treating them equal to everybody else, will hopefully induce a lot of loyality. Being the teaching platform for the next economic model, will have its effect...

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He is overlooked cross chain interoperability.

But then again, he comes at things from a Bitcoin perspective where maximalism is the strongest.

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So imagine if every Facebook like was a dollar, imagine what that would do.

He is indeed talking about Hive but doesn't know it. It's only a matter of time until the people realize there is a much better alternative to mainstream social media, but we could definitely use some marketing in the meantime.

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Need the proper app to market unless you are appealing to developers.

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(Edited)

Solid point, that's a necessary first step indeed.

On another note, I've always thought the system is way too complicated for the masses for the time being. That's why I think it will take some time for our gems to shine, as there is a certain level of technological literacy that is necessary for the technical details behind a crypto project to matter to the masses. But given the fact that we live in the information age, and also taking into consideration the fast pace at which the world is evolving, I believe we will get there very soon. That's why I'm very bullish on HIVE and LEO and think both projects have a bright future ahead.

Have a good one!

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He also often talks about communities, number of wallets/adoption. If we manage to get his attention this bull run, it will be an instant advertisement to the deepest pockets in finance.

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How do we put through to him to tell him that he had to edit his content to replace "Bitcoin" with "HIVE" in that Title. Maybe he was trying to talk about #ProjectBlank.

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I guess there are still waters to shake. I was having a chat with one of my friend how HIVE aka bloging/vlogging can give me some influence over a certain chain (Hive Blockchain). He was literally surprised and started to curse me for not letting him know about this platform lol.

That being said if only we could make HIVE more visible to other ecosystems, it would be a matter of time to compete or even overtake FB in terms of usability, revenue and what not.

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When comparing to the Web 2.0 applications like Facebook or Twitter, we see an ideal comparison. Upvotes on those networks might give the dopamine rush yet it truly carries no monetary value. Each activity is going to make Zuckerberg and Facebook shareholders more money. The individual is left with only the chemical rush.

Sad but true..

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