Why LEO Authors & Curators Earn More than Hive | The Pool Debate

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Why LEO Authors  Curators Earn More than Hive  The Pool Debate.mp4.png

One of the core tenets of Hive is to provide the base layer for community-level tokenization and second or first layer protocols to build on the idea of a social rewards ecosystem.

LeoFinance has taken the second-layer approach and built the LEO token economy around our community. As one of the largest communities on Hive, we’ve seen an explosion in the number of users that utilize our platform and earn LEO rewards.

All of this growth has plugged us directly into the debate that goes on more broadly on the Hive blockchain over the rewards pool. The debate is generally over the way that the pool is structured.

Some argue that there is no need for a Hive rewards pool. Instead, users should focus on community tokenization which could come in the form of layer 1 or layer 2 tokens built on Hive.

The other side of the argument is that nobody would be incentivized to create content and build the ecosystem if there was no reward pool.

Where LEO has come into the mix is as a showcase of what’s possible with niche communities and layer 1/layer 2 rewards pools. Authors and curators on LeoFinance are earning more than authors and curators on Hive.

We continually track the rewards of our top 25 authors each month and have been seeing a widening gap between the rewards they earn on Hive compared to the rewards they earn on LEO.

Some of these authors - like @rollandthomas and @scaredycatguide - have been blogging about crypto & finance on Hive/Steem for years now, yet the now earn more from LEO than they ever did from Hive. In fact, 85% of Rolland’s total USD rewards each month come directly from LEO as opposed to Hive.

The key is that these authors - like many others - create content that is highly relevant and valuable to LeoFinance and our community. This is one of many benefits to belonging to a niche community that has its own token and one of the core arguments in the debate over the Hive rewards pool and how community-level tokenization comes into play.

In this video, we mention the monthly author reward leaderboard post in which we compare the top 25 LEO authors and see what % of their rewards come from HIVE vs. LEO.


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27 comments
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9000$ to the top 25 in the month of September is really staggering. Nice analysis on the top 25 though can't believe many have made more on Leo than on hive. Pays to really be a Leo whale it's stunning how theses numbers are.

Posted Using LeoFinance

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It's really crazy. The growth has been amazing and I think we're still in the early stages of seeing things take off.

It pays to be a LEO whale and it also pays to be a LEO author. I hope to see these trends continue

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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What LEO is doing I have assume was the point of HIVE/STEEM with the native token only being the way to manage resource credits and vests the water ETH is the gas but most people are trading the tokens

HE tokens have been the stop gap for SMTs which I assume would have been easier to list on HIVE supported exchanges and have more pairs like ETH and BTC the way ERC-20 tokens are so they would all have various values due to market cap, distribution and demand and the success of say a LEO would mean LEO needed to secure more HIVE to provide RCs for their network and thus needing a reason to secure the token

And with say an SMT the Korean community for example could go get Korean listings for their SMT bringing capital from their CEXs and the same goes for other regions

Users that earned HIVE would dump it to provide the market for dApps to secure more resources as and when they needed it

Right now there’s still a disconnect and let’s say without The RC market a dapp onboarding users would have to provide delegations for new users to use the chain and drive demand for HIVE but because onboarding isn’t great the HIVE price isn’t doing much

I think the RC pool would give dapps so much more ability to be atonmous in onboarding and sponsoring their community engagement

I hate pointing to 1 thing saying that’s the winner but I do think that upgrade would ease a lot of the tension and issues around HIVE

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There are a lot of new structures that could make HIVE a better token. I love Hive's technology and infrastructure (which is why I choose to build here), but I also know that the tokenomics behind HIVE are fundamentally flawed.

I think the RC pool would give dapps so much more ability to be atonmous in onboarding and sponsoring their community engagement

I've always been a fan of this idea. Especially now with LeoFinance's new onboarding process - we're going to need tons of account creation tokens and delegations to new account signups. This either means we'll need to buy a lot of HIVE ourselves or we'll need a system like RC pools in place so we can rent it out from large stakeholders.

I'm a big fan of the ladder. It gives stakeholders an incentive to do something with their RCs - which are basically just lying dormant - and it gives community builders like me a way to efficiently access a necessary resource

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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HIVE rewards have to stay unless we want to risk chain governance becoming hopelessly centralized which would put everyone's funds at risk, including on all the second layer tokens. Corrupting 20 stakeholders is a lot easier than corrupting thousands.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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This is true to a degree. Although, most Hive rewards still flow into the same wallets. If you look at the top monthly earners, it's all whales and the same group of authors who get voted by them.

Ideally, a change to the way that HIVE is earned could have a positive impact on this. Other changes could be around the general financial architecture of how Hive is governed. Those are more radical though and will get slapped down by major stakeholders (IMO).

It will be interesting to see this all play out, but not all stakeholders on HIVE have the best interest of HIVE in mind. Many do, but not all.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Check this out:

https://leofinance.io/@dalz/top-hive-earners-by-category-or-authors-curators-witnesses-dao-dhf-or-june-2020

The top 20 earned ~58,000 HIVE equivalents in June 2020. The total was 800,000 in that time. It's surprising how it isn't top-heavier than that!

There is apparently a very long tail of smaller earners. The shape of the graph in the article actually suggests that.

The situation would be quite hopeless if it weren't for the author reward pool.

What I believe would be in the best interests of stakeholders to do is rotate the top 20 witness positions more aggressively.

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Congratulations @khaleelkazi! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You received more than 100000 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 110000 upvotes.

You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Do not miss the last post from @hivebuzz:

Feedback from the October 1st Hive Power Up Day
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Congrats to everyone buying and holding #leo
when the value was peanut.
They persevered to a point where
they are well fed whales.
Now having #hive blockchain
to run as a second layer
it is a plus plus.
Just need resource credit
and keep the blockchain moving.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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LEO is most probably the best thing happening to content creators on the Hive blockchain right now. As the price of LEO continues to rise in the coming days, the figures will look even brighter and healthier. Kudos for the great job.

Posted Using LeoFinance

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Haha always glad to hear that :)

I think these numbers will only continue to look better and better

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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The possibilities are evident. LEO to the world!

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The top earners are also rewarding each other more than others which is cool.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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We're changing the curation curve to linear in a few days. The goal is to widen the upvote spread. I think we'll see a positive change in where users are voting - fixing one of the main issues on Hive in general.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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I appreciate your effort @khaleelkazi and I hope that you would do the best for the benefit of all :)

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Surely the relative earnings just depend on who the T20 or so accounts vote for in a week on Leo compared to Hive and how much of the reward pool those T20 accounts hold.

When I see earnings posts league tables I also see 'who the large stakeholders are voting for' - because smaller accounts tend to pile in too! (maybe less so with the curation change coming).

Be interesting to see @dalz do a comparative analysis of who the T20 (or 10/30/50 i dunno what the ideal number would be) largest stakeholders vote for on each platform.

If that's even possible.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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One of my goals with the leaderboards is to see new users come and go from the top 25. Some users may have better content than others in 1 month over another and if we see a turnover rate in authors, I think that's actually a positive thing.

In the past, we've had the same issues as Hive in terms of the same authors earning way more than everyone else. Hopefully the upcoming curation change will encourage the stake to vote widely and place more irrelevance on how much a post is already earning. Instead, you read a good post and you tip it a certain amount.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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It's interesting to see the leaderboards for sure and the changes.

It will be more interesting to see the changes the curation brings, I've wanted that for a long time!

It all depends how bothered people can be to read stuff I guess, and that AV is so very very easy!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Hello champ good to see you around fighting the good fight. I think that having more or less rewards on Hive is kind of irrelevant and it doesn't undermine the work done by the original posters. Having the chance to earn some income in many front ends os surely a positive thing as long as we keep providing value to Leo and Hive itself. Best Regards brother.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Hey, great to see you again!

I agree - the relevance of HIVE rewards is continuing to degrade over time. I think the second-layer rewards are where the money is at, literally.

The point of our monthly posts is to prove that new authors come and go in the top 25 leaderboard on LeoFinance. Our goal is to reward the best crypto and finance content with the highest rewards and I think that goes a long way in the quality of content that is written on the platform. Hopefully we show this trend continuing

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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create content that is highly relevant and valuable to LeoFinance and our community

So proud of LEO authors

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It's amazing to see the authors. I'm biased, but I think we have some of the best authors out there :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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hey, I am currently delegating to leo.voter and I noticed that the delegation rewards dropped quite a lot in the last days. Is that intended?

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Hey, yeah the rewards are at a fixed 16% APR which means that the price of LEO has an impact on the # of tokens you receive, but the value of those tokens remains the same.

i.e. if LEO doubles in price, you'll receive half as many tokens but your daily payout in HIVE terms remains the same

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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I just started on Hyve, is it common to write/curate on Leofinance as well? So using both platforms?

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