Money Goes Where Treated Best!?

in LeoFinance โ€ข 6 months ago (edited)

Should I set an objective to become a LEO dolphin? ๐Ÿฌ Or continue "stacking" BRO tokens? ๐Ÿ’ฐ Maybe some combination of both? Upon what should I base making the decision?

Source: Based on image created by geralt on Pixabay

Anyone who follows my blog knows I am first and foremost an investor. Otherwise, we would have almost certainly never "met." As initially explained in my "First LeoDex Transaction" post, unaccustomed to having discretionary funds to think about, that has all changed in less than a month. As touched on briefly at the beginning of my "Got BRO?" post, a key focus for investing them has been "second layer" communities, built on the Hive blockchain.

So, with new funds to invest, what should I do? When it comes to investing money, we are all well advised to seek the input of others, before making final decisions.

One of the brightest financial minds I have ever come across is Dr. Steve Sjuggerud and I was recently glancing through some older material and came across this post on "Money Flows to Where It's Treated Best" on his DailyWealth website. An excerpt:

"If an investment offers a higher return than other alternatives, money flows there. Prices go up, and future returns go down. Eventually, the opportunity disappears, and money will flow somewhere else."

While this phrase and concept are not new to me, it had been awhile since I had both heard and, more importantly, taken some time to think about it. Refreshing my memory of this concept seemed to provide an excellent start on answering my question above?


Or did it? First, let's take a closer look at these two communities, which are in focus for me at the moment.

LEO? ๐Ÿฌ ... or ... BRO? ๐Ÿ’ฐ

With the link above provided, I will not be spending any more time on elaborating on this concept behind the title of this post. Why? Books, let alone posts, have been written about it. If the subject is of interest to you, I would encourage you to research it further. To help you in the future, making well-informed decisions.

What I will elaborate on is the choice before me between the LeoFinance and the Man Cave communities. Here are two bulleted lists of key impressions made on me, so far.


  1. Creator / Leader: @khaleelkazi. An organization is only as good as its people. While I don't know this man, he made a very favorable (and lasting, as here I am ...) impression on me with both the speed and content of his response to my "First LeoDex Transaction" post. Key supporters, who do know him, say he is determined to make this community a success or die trying.

  2. As both an investor and a "numbers guy," it is well within my "comfort zone" to see all that this community is doing. Love their "road maps." Even more impressive is their steady delivery on the "promise" of these roadmaps, i.e. not just talking about it, but "bringing them to life!" ๐Ÿ‘

  3. Much more could be written. I will sum it up by saying, from "the outside," the LeoFinance community appears to me to already be the most successful community on the Hive blockchain.

So @roleerob ... If this favorably impressed, why have I not been more involved up until now? Their current UI has been a "deal breaker" for me, up until recently. Even then, it is only the prospect of it soon (?) being entirely replaced that has inspired me to overcome this "inertia" and try to make the best of it.

Man Cave:

  1. Creator / Leader: @raymondspeaks. Again, an organization is only as good as its people. A self-professed community organizer and "what I'm made for," Ray is, from all impressions so far, the "real deal." If he has taken a "false step" yet, since I became aware of and involved with the Man Cave community, I have not discerned it. Very rare ...

  2. #1 is reinforced by the team he has around him, who have been associated with him far longer, through "thick and thin" it seems. In their own words, they appear to me to be saying more or less what I just said above ...

  3. This community's "value proposition?" Most definitely, given how "close to the vest" Ray "holds his cards" a little uhhh ... "fuzzy!" ๐Ÿ˜ One of his key responses, in his justification of this, is how easily copied ideas are. Well ... Hard to argue that I suppose, certainly in these "decentralized" and open-source coded "virtual worlds."

Unlike the comparatively clearly defined path and vision of the LeoFinance community, the Man Cave community's vision is much more abstract. In our crazy, messed up world, where men are too commonly referred to as "oppressors" and "toxic," the idea is to create a bit of a uhhh ... "sanctuary," where it is okay to be men and feel "safe" to do "man stuff."

Great concept and one which I, as well as many other men, can fully support. Can it be "monetized?" And made "profitable?" That remains to be seen!

I welcome input on which of these two directions you'd recommend I focus my time and treasure. "I'll leave the light on" while I wait! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Note: Before moving on, I want to say I believe there are many excellent communities here on our Hive blockchain. With both very passionate leadership and their vision of what "might be," as well as equally devoted and passionate followers. Faor all of us, I hope they ultimately make it. That said, it would take another whole post to go into any depth on why, I have chosen to focus on these two, for now. Perhaps another time ...


The old saying is - "it takes money to make money" ... Where is it going to come from?

  1. From my May 2018 start "in here" through to my post HF23 decision to power down on the Steem blockchain, I have always fallen dutifully in line with the "Power Up! Power Up!" mantra so commonly heard. Resulting in no decisions to make about "discretionary funds," as there were none.

    With some likely exceptions to be made here and there, that is now over for me. In line with the details in my "Money Making Money" post, I will be reinvesting the steady "flow" of HIVE and HBD from various sources.

  2. This "new chapter" in my Steem Hive "journey" began with discretionary funds, from powering down on Steem. That source has not dried up yet, with the recent creation of the Blurt blockchain. And plans for the Zapata blockchain. I have started powering down on Blurt. I will power down on Zapata ...

    While I could write a post or two about my perspectives on these new blockchains, it really is not a very complicated decision for me. I am simply unwilling to even think about the time it would take to start over on a new blockchain. I will simply transfer whatever value can be obtained here.

    To be clear, unlike too many others, I bear them no ill will, in their endeavors. I wish them well.

  3. "Dry powder" ... ๐Ÿ˜‰ As mentioned more than once elsewhere, I have the means to hold a much greater stake in here than I currently do. For the most part, I stopped investing fresh funds, after HF 21 /22. Perhaps my experience with these "second layer" communities will provide some inspiration to reconsider.

Source: Creator UniBay on Pixabay


Are the decisions before me (and you ...) as "simple" then, as focusing purely on the "flow of money?" I would suggest to you that it is most definitely not that "simple." At least here on the Hive blockchain ...

Let's take a look at an entirely different perspective ...

A Hive "Middle Class" and Curation "Points of the Spear"!

"We interrupt this regularly scheduled program" ... ๐Ÿ˜‰ All that I have written above is well and good. And represents "classic" investing advice and applying the "conventional wisdom" of "thought leaders" on how to "do it right" ... Except for one "teeny, weeny" problem ...

Enough quotes for you, dear reader? Yep, they were intentional! The problem? "In here," the "market mechanism" has no where near the power of the "free markets" out in "the real world!"

In a word, it is fixed! ๐Ÿ˜ณ What?

The "free market"
of the Hive blockchain
is "

Whoa ... Why would I make such a statement? Post(s) could be written in response. For this post, I will simply provided a bulleted list of key concepts:

  • The Hive "ecosystem" is totally "digital." That is, it is a computer-generated "virtual world" totally and tightly controlled by programming code. Black and white. 0s and 1s. No shades of gray ...

  • The "real world" is "analog." As a result, "out there" we find infinite "shades of gray" in the global mix of nations, cultures, and "human nature," in all its "glory." In which free markets are impacted by "influencers," e.g. the rule of law, state regulations, politics, etc. which have no true equivalent on the Hive blockchain.

  • Set aside earning author rewards for creating content, which drew most of us here in the first place. The EIP changes of HF 21 / 22 placed an intentionally sharper focus on curation. They went up. Author rewards went down. Fixed!

There was intense discussion about these changes on the Hive blockchain, prior to their implementation. Any decision we make has consequences. Rapidly approaching a year later, what were the consequences of these changes on curation?

  • Good news: We have more selfless, manually curating "points of the spear." These are community curators that give of their time to find quality content upvoted by community accounts, not their own. Others follow, in support of their considerable efforts.

  • Better news: We have a (very slowly) growing middle class, which is generally considered to be a sign of a strong, robust, health economy, in the "real world." There is nothing convincing I have ever seen "in here," to suggest otherwise.

Source: Creator mohamed_hassan on Pixabay

Are you on the "fully decentralized" side of spectrum about how best to characterize the Hive blockchain, dear reader? Or more on the side of the spectrum believing we are "ruled over," by a deeply entrenched "oligarchy?" ๐Ÿ˜

Going right past my answer, I want to use this thought process as a "springboard" for simply pointing out the powerful incentive we should all have to see replication of ourselves by 100X! By 1000X!! Do I hear ... ๐Ÿ˜‰

Why? Simple supply and demand and the end result on the HIVE token price of a dramatic increase of "happy" and "prosperous" fellow Hive bloggers.

"At the end of the day," we can distill this down to a key question:

How much does the
delayed gratification
of pushing rewards out to others
"maximizing" them to ourselves
matter on the Hive blockchain?

Delayed gratification? What @roleerob?! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ Yes, the long-term "a rising tide lifts all boats" view of helping others, who ... In turn, help others and recruit new participants, from their network of "real people" out there in the "real world" ... "Wash, rinse, "repeat" ...

Ouch, ouch, owwweee @roleerob! "You're hurting me!" "I don't wanna think about it." "Leave me alone ..." ๐Ÿ˜‰ To finish my light-hearted attempt to make a serious point, I'll borrow from the almost universally known "Star Wars" reference and say - "The WIIFM (What's In It For Me?) 'force is strong with that one.'" As you read these words, are any accounts coming to mind? ๐Ÿค”


Let's close this portion of my post, with reinforcement of what I have just covered, by presenting two final points about the consequences of the EIP changes of HF 21 / 22:

  • Bad news: Unlike the selfless, manual curators mentioned above, are there any self-focused "points of the spear?" In the absence of any "rule of law," we have instead "code is law." How's that working for us? Those so inclined and with the needed coding skills, can join the "club" that takes advantage of the code. By building "auto curation mining" bots ...

    To be crystal clear, I am not talking about auto voting services like those offered by Hive Vote.

  • Worst news: Focusing on and underscoring the word "fixed" be clear the "rewards" available to participants in the Hive blockchain's "social experiment" are finite. Therefore, these "auto curation mining" bots are effectively "rewarding" one "club," at the expense of those in the other "club." How many members, dear reader, do you think are in each?

Can "auto curation mining"
rightly be considered

Would it be overstating it, to say these last two points could reasonably be considered as confirmation and justification for those who have a "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer ..." view of the Hive blockchain? Think about it. You decide ...

To be sure, the creation of the Hive blockchain can and IMHO should be classified as "brilliant." But ... It is in your best interest, dear reader, to understand the limitations of it, as much as possible ... While you may choose to disagree with some of what I have written, I would suggest to you it would be a mistake to pass it off as "nothing to it" ...

With that, "welcome" to the Hive blockchain and "come on in!" It is just a whole lotta "fun!" ๐Ÿ˜‰


In this post on investing, the "bottom line" is investing in HIVE is not the same as investing in the best known example of its alternative, BTC. Hive is far more nuanced and complicated. In my little black-and-white engineering "pea brain," I see the distinction as HIVE being a "smart" crypto, with a whole "ecosystem" built around it, while BTC is a "dumb" crypto, laying claim to simply being "virtual gold" ...

My point? This post began with "classic," age old investment advice which I believe can still be viewed as applicable to cryptos like BTC. But applying it to HIVE? After reading this post and many others, you be the judge. After all, "You are your own bank!"

Which then ... Brings me full circle back to the importance of communities on our Hive blockchain. And making a determination on which, of the two I have chosen to highlight in this post, to focus on for future investment of my "time and treasure" ...

Your thoughts and input in the comments below are welcome!

With the higher priority need to attend to some family matters delaying the publishing of this post, three days ago (July 21st) it was announced in The Man Cave community that its recently announced ~ 300K HP delegation was being removed. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

It had been in place for less than 3 weeks. What happened? Why this change?

"He's doing it in anticipation of markets picking up ..."

Announcement channel in The Man Cave community's Discord server.

A better opportunity elsewhere!

Source: Investing Caffeine post on "Money Goes Where Treated Best"

And there's more:

"... my delegator telling me that they were removing their delegation and powering down."

Announcement channel in The Man Cave community's Discord server. [emphasis added mine]

So ... We are faced with not only a 300K HP loss for The Man Cave community, but potentially a 300K loss for the Hive blockchain, as well! Stake movements of this magnitude have "market" consequences. We would like to believe there is "smart" money sitting on the "magical sidelines" somewhere eagerly waiting to buy this 300K HIVE and, therefore, the price will remain stable. Right? If this "smart" money is headed elsewhere, what does that suggest to you?

This news certainly will have a significant short-term impact on the community. It is unavoidable, as it drops the daily curation reward for this account, a key in attracting interest to it, in the recent "relaunch" of The Man Cave community.


Full disclosure: No, I did not offer the @america account anything to take this action to provide the perfect illustration for my post! ๐Ÿ˜‰


As succinctly and concisely as I can manage, dear reader, I have attempted to capture the "dynamic tension" inside this "virtual world." Are you focused on making (more) money? And applying "conventional wisdom" in doing it? If you have been "in here" any length of time, you know at least something about the challenge of how best to go about doing that ...

Myself a life-long "free market" advocate, I realize at the end of the day, we are all going to pursue the course we deem best. For all sorts of reasons. Some of which will be rational, logical, financially sound ... And others? Well, again, if you have been "in here" for any length of time, you can only marvel at "what the ...?" ๐Ÿ˜ฒ thoughts which will inevitably come to you, as you watch in amazement what others choose of their own free will to do with their "free market" decision-making opportunities. Just like in the "real world" ...

I have a decision to make. Any input you might have on my original questions are welcome. And, as always, Iโ€™d love to hear any additional feedback you may be inspired to provide.

Until "next time," all the best to you for a better tomorrow, as we all work together to build up our Hive Communities and add increasing value to our Hive blockchain! ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜Š

Hive Blogger & Man Cave "Dragon" @roleerob

๐Ÿ ๐Ÿฏ ๐Ÿ


P.S. If I were a committed Hive "maximizer" and focused exclusively and solely on making money, I would be breaking up my content into multiple posts. Instead of just one ... Well, as we can see here once again, that is not my style. For personal reasons that transcend "maximizing" and all that word implies ...


Posted using LeoFinance and โ€œimmutably enshrinedโ€ in the Hive blockchain on Friday, 24 July 2020!
๐ŸŒฒ No trees were harmed in the publishing of this post! ๐ŸŒฒ

Interested in reading more of my related posts?

Lead Image Title, Link, & Summary
Land of Leo: My First LeoDex Transaction!?

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The Man Cave! New Hive Community and First BRO Tokens ...

How does any "new chapter" in our life begin? Are there ever really any coincidences in our lives? In this post, you will read my story behind the discovery of The Man Cave, a relaunched community for "man stuff!"
Yo! Got BRO? Oh no ... ๐Ÿ˜ž Go! ๐Ÿ‘‡

Since my discovery of The Man Cave community, I had developed a steadily increasing appreciation for it. And had invested into it accordingly. This post was written to encourage others to seriously consider doing the same!
๐Ÿ’ฒ Your Money Making Money! ๐Ÿ’ฐ Sound Good?

How can we apply the "eighth wonder of the world" to the new BRO token of the relaunched Man Cave community? This post addresses that question, along with touching on some of the vital discipline needed for financial independence.

The Man Cave: A Hive community "for men to retreat to their cave and do manly stuff"!
Discord: Engage with The Man Cave's "band of brothers"!

Check it out!

LeoFinance: A Hive blockchain community devoted to investing!
Discord: Engage with LeoFinance's Online Community!

Check it out!

Hive signature GIF created by @zord189. Ask him to create one for you!
This account is protected by @dustsweeper

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Sort: ย 

Great post ๐Ÿฆ

Admittedly, I donโ€™t always keep up with other hive projects/communities and get caught up in the development bubble. Itโ€™s nice to read a brief overview of the BRO project I keep hearing about

Iโ€™m as fed up with our interface as anybody else. We should start open beta testing on the new interface in the next 7 days or so ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Posted Using LeoFinance

Excellent news @khaleelkazi ...

"We should start open beta testing on the new interface in the next 7 days or so ๐Ÿ˜Ž"

... as I prize my time very highly. Even this post cost me another 15 extra minutes or so, still trying to "zero in" on the cause of why it works fine in PeakD and not on the LeoFinance UI ...

7 days sounds great! ๐Ÿฆ Hopefully, I can provide some assistance in troubleshooting, as I know nothing ever works "right out of the box" the first time. I like your roadmap though of what you hope to accomplish!

Glad to "hear" you found something of interest in this post about other communities. If you deem it to be of value and / or interest, I would imagine Ray would be open to talking about whatever ideas the two of you might come up with on collaboration / partnerships / etc.

Posted Using LeoFinance

Well you have 2k Leo so you can consider yourself a nice dolphin! Three k more though and you can be a small whale :D

Posted Using LeoFinance

Lol so can I call myself a half whale? I have 2.6k Leo?

Posted Using LeoFinance

Interesting comment @trumpman2 ...

"Well you have 2k Leo so you can consider yourself a nice dolphin! Three k more though and you can be a small whale :D"

... as I am not sure how to take it. My assumption is becoming a "Dolphin" requires me to get to ~ 5K LEO, as that was what was necessary on the Steem blockchain.

Not so?

Posted Using LeoFinance

ย 6 months agoย (edited)

Well... What's the circulation of hive today? And whats the circulation of leo? I'll let you do the math ;)

You appear to know something about these numbers which I do not @trumpman. If there is a formula somewhere, e.g. tied to circulation, I do not know about it. As alluded to earlier and to state it more clearly now, I have always understood becoming a dolphin requires reaching ~5,000 of whatever token. Apparently not so?

Posted Using LeoFinance

Hehe, sorry, I was a bit drunk yesterday and too lazy for a proper response. You see, hive as we speak has a total circulation of around 400 million coins. Meanwhile Leo has only 4 million coins. So, holding 2k Leo is like holding 200.000 hive, more or less. Of course, there are other factors like how many real users each coin has, the distribution of hive is way way bigger, so whale/dolphin lvls are different. But as you can, if two years from now leo becomes successful even 2k Leo maybe be a big thing ;)

Okay, no problem @trumpman on timing of your response. Thank you for providing it. Funny that I have been "in here" for +2 years and have never seen a reference like this as to what number of tokens we would attach to these labels ... (What I have sometimes referred to as "whimsical" labels. Others seem to like them, as a reference to their progress, so ...)

Applying your definition, if I am following it correctly, then I am referring in my post to an objective of having 5,000 LEO tokens. And staking them. If reached, rather than then be at the dolphin level, you are indicating I would, in fact, be a whale ...

Posted Using LeoFinance


I haven't been keeping up with the man cave. Like yourself, I don't put ALL of my liquid earnings back into HIVE. 2/3rds is my goal which leaves 1/3 left to invest in Layer 2 projects or completely different projects altogether.

My bet is on LEO. Not that I'm super familiar with Khaleelkazi. It's the intention in his chosen words that stirs my intuition. I do know Raymond from time on Steem and respect him. It's nothing I can put my finger on but intuition tells me to stay here. ๐Ÿ‘

Posted Using LeoFinance

Thank you for the input @inalittlewhile! While I did not state it in this way in my post, in many ways I could classify trying to compare these two communities to an "apples and oranges" comparison. What I did state was there is no question that Leo has a much clearer defined set of objectives.

In the end, I may just choose to invest some time and effort into both, as I like the abstract objective Ray has of providing a community for men.

Thanks again for stopping by and providing some input. Have a good day (evening)!

Posted Using LeoFinance

Much more could be written. I will sum it up by saying, from "the outside," the LeoFinance community appears to me to already be the most successful community on the Hive blockchain.

You're definitely right about this by all means, this was what instigated me to start buying leo as well I feel the future of Leo is going to be really astounding. Awesome post you wrote here.

Very good @josediccus ...

"... this was what instigated me to start buying leo ..."

... as it shows you are brighter about these investment opportunities than I have been. I have been transparent, in this post, about the "big picture" of why I have not done much of anything with these "second layer" communities.

Until now. "Better late than never!" ๐Ÿ˜‰

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A nice read :)

I don't know too much about BRO but have been watching LEO and the team for a while now and think they have something promising going on.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Nice to know @abh12345 ...

"A nice read :)"

... that you found it worthwhile, to invest your time in doing that. I seriously debated breaking this up, but ... Just didn't feel right about it. Knowing full well that, for many, they are just not going to take the time ...

I appreciate your perspective on LEO. As explained in this post, I have only recently begun to take a much closer look at these "second layer" communities. Did you read the post about authors who earn more from their LEO rewards than their HIVE rewards? Eye-opening ...

Thanks for stopping by and adding value to this post!

Posted Using LeoFinance

Yes it's a chunky one by Hive standards but kept me interested enough to continue reading.

Did you read the post about authors who earn more from their LEO rewards than their HIVE rewards?

I did, and although I only post 1/2 times a week there, the 18k staked LEO I have on the .leo alt does quite well. LEO seem to be heading towards being the 'homepage for crypto news', something Steemit inc. wanted but fell short of.

Cheers :D

Dear @roleerob, I was surprised by your versatile talent. By the way, Korean society has a strong feudalism, so it is difficult for Koreans to understand your outstanding ideas.
The Korean ruling class monopolizes Korea's stock and investment markets.
Because Korea is a feudal society, most Koreans only speculate on real estate.
Korea's stock, speculation and foreign exchange markets are all monopolized by the ruling class.
I can't understand your writing because I'm not good at English, but I'll read it hard in the future.

Thank you!

ย 6 months agoย (edited)

Yes well @silvergrifin007 ...

"... I was surprised by your versatile talent."

... working in 5 different industries, a person does experience a thing or two. And I enjoy writing on whatever inspires me, at any given point in time.

The nice thing about these digital assets ("cryptos"), my Korean friend, is they are accessible to anyone and everyone. Big or small. Just start ...

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